“Why are Christian Missions targetting India?” – II
I wrote on this subject a few days ago – see “Why have Missionaries chosen to attack India?” – and was alerted this morning to another such organisation: “Mission India – Making Disciples to Transform India for Christ“.
A few weeks ago, I had also blogged about Kids in Ministry’s efforts to proselytize Indian children. Kids in Ministry is the organisation that was the subject of a recent documentary, “Jesus Camp”.
Do I see a pattern here or am I over-reacting?
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UPDATE: Comments to this post are now closed. Please continue the discussion here:
On Kandhamal, Conversions and Proselytization
Part III of the thread is here: Why are Christian Missionaries targeting India – III
Image courtesy: Wikipedia
over reacting? u’ve got to be kidding.
i think as a society – we are grossly UNDER reacting. and its a shame, for everytime anybody reacts, we’re branded as saffronists and fanatics.
it is clearly a planned onslaught by organized religion – they seem to be prety clear with their goals. only thing we can do, imho, is trying our own lil ways to help people have the faith, and strengthening hindu values.
When the pope visited India he clearly expressed the intentions of his religion to convert ‘the poor sections’…
http://www.joshuaproject.net. I hope this site must be kept under watch, they have details of indians(Ansari-name given by them)too under there data as unreached people group(where missionaries have not reached).
Dear Hindus, i have seen the website ‘Christian aggression.org’. This site contains full of fact,iam from Bangalore, i am seeing what these Christians are doing to Indian people.
Near more than 20 villages in Bangalore are been converted into Christians. This is true what is happening. Even foreign people now days not believing in Christianity, its a bull shit. A man of name ‘Christ’ Doesn’t exist in the world even though they are spearding in the world. That religion is worst, it says not to respect mother, father, Teacher only Priest and christ. This is really stupidity.
A man have to respect his mother first she gave birth to him. One thing is sure world is in danger. If Christianity is so powerful then y people in foreign countries are doing many crime. Their is no value of relationship. They believe in money.
But this is not the beginning of that stupid religion. Its the ending of that idiotic religion.
Dharmabum, Jagmohan, Indian and Rajesh…
Thank you all for your comments (and Indian for the link).
I also came across this site a while ago:
http://www.worldmap.org
The most interesting thing is the depth and breadth of data and the systematic evangelization effort apparently underway…
Amongst other things, the map highlights “over 100,000 cities, towns and villages thematically color-coded to depict both their relative size and their evangelical status based upon the primary language and people group living in each location.”
I am aghast! In hindi I can say “baj nahi ayege ye log”. They have detailed information, study, and plan. I think Indian Govt, even might not be having all this minute details about india and its people. One thing I can find from all this website is that they are v. very aggresive with master planned goals and strategies.
But I can definitely challenge them on how well they are underastimating the intellectual mind of enlightened Hindus. And they are still far behind in understanding and getting details of it in their mission of conversion. They have no idea that in later part they have to deal with enlightened people of India and their defeat is for sure. My request to all Hindus; We must prove hard as coconut, cannot be broken that easy by any aggression. “unko, Lohe ke chane chabane padage”. It is the time to show them we have far superior intellectual mind. Let not come into their threat and tricks. Hindus cannot be fooled that easy by false dreams. Their trap is for dumb and stupid. Let not prove ourselves dumb and stupid. I dont think christianity is more superior than our religion of Hinduism, so there is no question of conversion. Being a hindu is an honour to have s. super mind, body, soul and beautiful heart. Till now I have not seen any potentiality in other religion making anyone that intellectual and wonderful human being. If there is any out, we will respect it as much as our religion but there is no question of conversion.
I too had experience with this evangelical people coming to my door with books, bible and other materials. First thing I never let them come into my living room. Second, I have never insulted them once they were at my door step. Third, I always agreed with their points on humanity. I remained honest not biased at any point. But I am very proud that I have defeated them at various level of talk. I have seen them getting bewildered with my questions and responses. They were sort of, in understanding many aspects of life and human.
1. They will read something from bilble, I didn’t mind as I respect their religion too. Its not going to harm me. They might be thinking I am going to be trapped but it was me who was trapping them.
2.But once they started denigrating my religion I took intellectual fight with them.
They siad christianity is the only religion of non- violent. I asked them “Do your religion allow to have slaughter houses to feed people” Their response was ” but you people kill each other”. I said “When britishers were shooting at the people gathered, Mahtama Gandhi asked all not to raise weapons against them”. They killed many people of India. We never raised weapons it was non-violent fight for freedom. I asked them “Do you know from which country I come from?”. “I come from the land of Mahtma Gandhi.” I have my religion. Go to them, who have no religion of their own.
Then I told them my religion in nonviolent and is far ahead and extends up to the vegitrainism. They said but all Hindus are not vegi. I said’ It is because of invasion of Moguls and Britishers. My people got fooled by them.( I dont mean to offend any one who is non-veg here)With due respect to them. I said Elephant eats leaves, plants and other veg product. Can you tell me in what way elephant is weeker. We respect elephant because inspite of enermous animal it never harms anyone and eats plants. It is the most social animal. In no way my Hinduism is inferior to any other religion. It is your religion asking not to respect other religion in disguise. Do what you preach.
Many such discussion took place between us at various occassion. But eveytime they felt sort against one ardent Hindu.
Jai hind
Sorry for some of my non-edited spellings and sentences.
Indian, dont worry…your passion speaks eloquently for itself…
and like you, the data and the amount of thought that has gone into the site (www.worldmap.org) stunned me…
i lost my dad a couple of years ago… he was a great soul and had a wonderful sense of humor…. i want to share this incident which happened a few years ago…. i was in medical college then and i had gone home for holidays….. we were all sitting at home and having some fun when suddenly the door bell rang…. a big posse of about 6 christian nuns and a missionary father singing some carols were standing outside our door…. my dad opened the door and the group just walked in even without us inviting them… since all of us were convent educated we knew why they were there but still we smiled at the sisters and asked them what we could do for them.
they started singing some songs and then loudly recited a prayer – which was something like this- i cant remember the actual words but they said something like- Oh dear Lord forgive these sinners becos they do not know what they do…. please embrace them dear Lord and give them your love – saying this they gave us pictures of Jesus and placed their hands on our heads and told us to embrace Christianity. I was pretty annoyed and got up to ask them to leave… before i could say a word my dad thanked the sisters for coming and in a raised voice asked my mom to bring some vermillion( kunkum) and vibhoothi ( holy ash) from our Pooja room…. He said in a loud voice– Bhagavane! Please forgive these christian idiots who go around paying money to beggars and fools and forgive the fools for taking money and running away from you…. please bless them even when they die and rot in hell…. saying this he asked my mom to give kunkum to the sisters and he gave Ganapathis picture and viboothi to the father…. i burst out laughing and the missionaries ran out of our house as though they were stung by a scorpion…. i have never seen them again in my street…. i miss my dad and his interesting ways of tackling unwanted guests.
I am a British Hindu living in Texas and have witnessed many accounts of Christian fundamentalism. Members of my family have been harrassed and called satan-worshippers, even Hindus don’t believe in the existence of a devil. I was insulted for reading my Harry Potter book, which is excellent reading material, by the way. I am also a law-abiding resident and have committed no crimes against anyone. why then is it necessary for me to go to hell? It is time that some Christians realize that non-Christians are no less moral than them.
Chitra: Have a look at my latest post on this issue: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/05/27/heading-towards-a-christian-india/
Hi Chitra
I would like to share same kind of experience. I have met the same kind of lot, that is outside India.
They told me the same thing about hell and heaven.
My answer to them was; Dont you think that hell and heaven is made up stories to scare people?
They could not answer back. They just said: that is what you think?
I said yes, I have my own mind and it is very intelligent. And my intelligent mind thinks so.
And ( i can see from their facial expression) they were ashamed of themselves for believing in all that stupid stories and that also trying to convince me on it.
I am somehow surprised by the anti-christian vituperation which calls that christians have a hidden agenda of converting the whole nation. But the fact is many have decided to join the fold because they have found meaning and purpose. Somehow the arguments here seem far devoid of reality that ultimately people are following for reasons not associated with finances, political agenda etc. but for their own spiritual well being. Frankly we have brought religious concepts to their very basic denominator which are petty politics instead of looking at it as a source of life and meaning. The problem is that there exists a spiritual vaccum in the hearts of people. Why is this problem not addressed? My grandfather was a rich landowner when he became a Christian and it changed his life so much so that he gave 25 acres of land for a leprosy centre. The very people whom earlier he discarded as being unworthy.
Such change always leads people to express what has happened in their lives and thus christianity grows. Following Jesus is about that not a political agenda. Hope you will reconsider and be more objective in your assessment.
Kris: This is a quick comment and I will respond more thoroughly in a day or two.
Please note that I have been very careful in my reporting of the various sites, articles and facts. There have been no accusations in my posts (or at least none that I have consciously made – please correct me if I am wrong).
It is quite possible that people have chosen to convert to Christianity because they “have found meaning and purpose” – I have nothing against that and I am all for free will.
That however is not always the case; read e.g. my comment (#3) on this post:
https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/02/28/why-have-missionaries-chosen-to-attack-india/
I belive you are right in being proud of your grandfather who “gave 25 acres of land for a leprosy centre” – but where in Hindu scriptures or texts does it say that lepers should be “discarded as being unworthy” – I think that is an infair portrayal of Hinduism. Would you agree?
More on this later and thanks for taking the time to comment.
Hi Kris
We respect christianity as much as Hinduism, only we don’t respect is forced conversion. And it happens all around the world. No doubt init. Hinduism is also as much sound and potential as christianity. There is also no doubt init. We as a India and Hinduism may have lost our basic religious concept and meaning( as per what you said) because India was invaded by Moguls and Britishers and was under their ruling for 100’s of years.
With due respect to all religion, Please dont take anything by heart, we all have right to fight for our freedom and thought.
Shantanu,
I hope you dont mind for my above comments to Kris.
Indian: Comments are meant for my readers to express their opinon…so please dont worry about it…
Of course I will intervene if something is grossly offensive, vulgar, abusive or threatening…thats not the case here.
Chitra: “It is time that some Christians realize that non-Christians are no less moral than them.” Our Bible teaches that going to heaven or hell is not a matter of personal morality.
To all: I am a fundamentalist proselytizing Christian. I must say that the unethical actions of people representing my faith are most regrettable and disturbing, and also clearly contradict with what our Bible tells us regarding how to interact with people, including but certainly not limited to evangelizing. Some of it can be blamed on the very unfortunate “the ends justifies the means” mentality, but a great deal of it can be blamed on things that are much worse it appears.
I support the Gospel For Asia ministry, which does not engage in unethical tactics to the best of my knowledge; they seem to labor to produce legitimate converts using legal honorable respectful methods (which is what our Bible specifically clearly instructs us to both by explicit command and illustrative example). Yet, I believe that I have seen Gospel For Asia (http://www.gfa.org) listed among the “Christian aggression” and “missionary watch” websites such as the ones that you cite? Would you be able to inform me of any abuses that they are accused of making, and the evidence for such charges? If so, please reply to any entry on my weblog that appears under http://healtheland.wordpress.com/tag/india/.
Thank you.
the question is given here why christian targetting india>>??? my dear friends ..2000 years b4 jesus came to thsi world and told his disciple to go to the end( all people) and preach the Goodnews and those who belives make them disciples.so it si not only india but true christian are forced by the love of jesus to reach every one on this earth .we have no other aim .only we preach is jesus came to thsi world to die for our sins so belive in him and be saved coz he is the only way to heaven .its our personnel choice to belive or not .so thiking that using arms or any other way these christians will be quiet but brothers ist not true ,,we are asked to pray for those who persecute us so no weapon will stop any christian just read how christianity rise d in midst of terrible perscution so think straiht about what christianity is all about
To George
We too have our heroes in the form of God, who we feel is as important as Lord Jesus. You must go to them who has no religion or lacking such spirituality in daily life. India that is “BHARAT” had great civilisation number of years ago. We were more civilised and that is the reason you can see vegeterianism in only HiNDUS and BUDDHIST. But our civilisation and culture got tainted when Moguls and britishers invaded our country. So what today we have is ripped culture and traditions, that doesnot give any one a chance to interfere and start conversion.
I believe in Jesus as much as I beleive in Lord Ganesha. There is no line between two religion of Hindus-Christian. So I dont think there is any need to disturb this equation and make a rift.
I understand Jesus may have said that- though i have doubt in my mind, Jesus was selfless person, I dont think he would have asked and spread to all and everyone, may only to those who has no religion and culture of theor own.
I think to ask the question “Why are Christian Missions targetting India?” is perhaps an incorrect way to approach and respond to the issue. The Bible clearly mandates its believers to spread the gospel, so we have to presuppose that that’s what they’re going to do.
The question should be “What are we doing to solve the problems afflicting the poverty-stricken people in India?” That’s the only manner in which the issue should be adressed. I think the issues of conversion and proselytization are more connected to socio-economic issues rather than spiritual ones in India.
If non-Christians decide to convert for spiritual reasons to Christianity, I couldn’t be happier, but when Christian missionaries take advantage of the socio-economic problems present in our country in order to propagate an agenda that, in the end, doesn’t really better the living conditions of the poor, I have to take objection.
So, our first and most immediate concern is to use whatever resources we can to affect improvement in the lives of the people that are being targetted, in conjunction with the Dharma. Now, this should be financial AND spiritual improvement, in that, we will go nowhere if we donate money and still continue to harangue about caste differences.
It’s true that the Christian organizations have significant financial resources due to their American backing, but let’s look at our strength, which is our human resources. Say what you want about the power of money, but I will always take the power of people first. Fortunately, we are still the majority in this country and we have to use that to our advantage.
Our agenda isn’t Hindutva, communal, secular, or whatever label is in vogue with politicians these days. Our only goal is to effect a change for the better in the financial and spiritual lives of our fellow brethren. I recall reading a speech by Swami Vivekananda where he issued a challenge to us as Hindus to dedicate ourselves to the abovementioned goal.
It’s been over a century since he made that speech and the question we should ask now is “What have we done since?”
Coversion is a neo-colonial strategy. Today, western christian nations can’t directly colonise any other nations, so they using conversion as a strategy to make non-whites their slaves and sub-servients. Conversion don’t make non-whites equal to white christians.
Look at South American countries, their original rich culture and heritage were destroyed by the Spaniards and Portuguse and today over 40-50 percent people live below poverty lines in these nations. Same situations in African countries, Phillipines, and other regions. Conversion is western imperialism, nothing else. Converted people becomes agents and slaves of western nations.
And look at the dirty tricks they used to convert. During Tsunami times, thousands of missionaries from west flong to Srilanka, India, Indonesia to harvest souls by bribing them with food and money. One Sri Lankan HIndu old man of over 80 years were offered options to convert into christianity to get food and relief materials by a NGO. Indonesian govt had to banned missionary NGOs from relief distributions and many muslim organizations declared fatwa against missionaries.
Look at the Goa inquisitions, what barbarism christianity did in India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition
‘Goa Inquisition was most merciless and cruel’
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
Richard Zimler’s novel, Guardian of the Dawn, documents the little-known Portuguese Inquisition in India, in 16th century Goa. He points out that, apart from their laws and religion, the Portuguese also imported and enforced their infamous methods of interrogation to subdue troublemakers.
Truth is that not a single educated or rich Hindu ever converted into christinity. There is no reason to convert from Hindu dharma as it is the world most richest philosophy and culture. There is no spiritual reason to become christian, as christians in the west leaving christianity due to lack of philosophy in it. Whatever good things and verses in the Bible, they are already exists in the Vedic philosophy long before. Only poor HIndus become victims of missionary barbarism and terrorism. Missionies used all the dirty tricks to convert poor hindus, offering them smashed (powder) tablets to get cure of fever by saying they are prasadam from Jesus. Cheating, deceiving, bribing, luring, forcing etc are tactics of conversions. They used different tactics systematically, as missionaries are trained professionals by the church.
Swami Vivekananda declared, when a Hindu get converted into non-Hindu, it is not only one Hindu less but one enemy more. So, those who converted from HIndus already shown their designs as most dangerous enemy to the hindus and India.
Mahatma Gandhi was equally vocal against conversion. So was Dr Ambedkar and many other national leaders.
Under the banner of secualrism, these missionaries does/doing the most barbaric crimes against humanity. Does any western nations will tolerate such dirty barbarisms carried out non-christians over there? Never. They will crush such barbarism with iron hands.
Hindus must be vocal in highlighting the barbarity and terrorism unleased on India by the missioanries. Our extreme tolerance and softness is our weakness, and missionaries knew that.
Also read this:
David Frawley’s Speech, in Debate with Christian Missionaries in India.
Delivered at a public discussion organised by Prajna Bharati A.P., on “The Ethics of Religious Conversions” at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Hyderabad.
http://www.hinduvoice.co.uk/Issues/18/Prajna.htm
Healtheland, George, Indian, Parik and Bharat: Thanks to all of you for your comments.
@ Parik: Thats a great comment and I agree wholeheartedly…I have said this before and I think it is worth mentioning again: “starving souls do not have religion…”
Jai Hind, Jai Bharat.
I totaly agree with Bharta, Parik, Shantanu. You all have have given fantastic explaintaion.
I will spread the word-“starving souls do not have religion”
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Very well written piece…Nandan!
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Indian, Krishna and Nandan: I have moved these comments to a fresh post to make it easier for everyone to follow the debate and comment on it. I hope you do not mind.
I must say it is fascinating.
Please click here to follow the discussion on “Do you believe in Jesus as much as you believe in Ganesh?“
Thanks.
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Nandan: You have got the green signal!
I am moving this comment to the new post so people can follow the thread of the discussion.
cmon guys..u speak so much ill abt christianity and jesus?
what have you done for india?
tell me?
you guys know to speak..but dont realise their sacrifice and love towards our countr..
They were the people who popularised education and gave us a better name. Its better to have thousand christians than to have 1 muslim who is like a virus destroyer.
There might be conversion..some dont convert forcibly..its the teachings and life of jesus christ, the cause for it. May be Bible is clearer, straight forward and guides spiritually..
Sam:
Thank you for your comment but I am not willing to get into a discussion with you about what I have done for India.
As for my thoughts on conversion, do also have a look at this post (and the comments):
“Why have Missionaries chosen to attack India?”
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Valkyrie: You need to watch your language (and read up a bit).
Bharat, if “conversions” and X’ian missions are western imperialism ! Then I guess, the selfless and charitable acts of Mother Teresa who genuinely cared and actually DID heaps for the poor iin India ( a record of charity that can never be broken by any Hindu org. leave alone Hindu icon) must be a blood thirsty imperialist ! ( hint : Sarcasm)
Valkyrie: Pl. watch your language…
Your comment (#40) is on the edge of being vulgar, abusive and insulting.
I am letting it stand for the moment but I am reserving the right to edit/delete it once I have had a chance to take a second, closer look.Original comment deleted as it crossed the line of a sensible discussion.
In any case, I am not going to dignify it with a response beyond saying that you appear to have very little understanding of Ancient Indian history – and even less of “Hindu-ism”.
At the very least, do have a look at: “A Search for the Historical Krishna”
See also some of the comments to this post: “Are we heading towards a Christian India?” – excerpts“
A record of charity that can never be broken by any Hindu org. leave alone Hindu icon? It is high time the Christians awakened the Christ in them. Jesus is known for his humility and sacrifice. At least some of his followers seem to think arrogance is a better virtue. Are we to assume the Mother was out to make a record? A true Christian must spread the good news not by tempting and misleading the poor illiterate people but by choosing to practise what he preaches.
Ok I’ve edited my earlier post…already posted in other similar websites. There is NO foul word or abuse. Its neat. Despite that if u still delete my reasonable and factual post. I willtake it that you ( the Hindu moderator) have lost the debate. Open ur eyes to the truth. Let LOGIC be your God !
And, as for comparing Jesus with Krishna ? Plenty of differences there buddy !
First of all Jesus Christ ( whether u believe in his “divinity” or not) was a REAL historical character whose life/works can be referenced with the most anthropologically accurate data available then. The only way we know our ancient history is through Historical referencing , time lines, etc without that, even Alexander, Soccarates, Buddha & Chengiz Khan would simply be mere myths !
Now obviously I can’t provide Christ’s DNA analysis as evidence ( not as yet)..they’re still working on his “Shroud of Turin” !
But we can historically conclude that Jesus, son of Jewish Joseph & Mary lived between 6 BC – 30 AD, under King Herod, under the Roman Governor of Israel Pontius Pilate who represented imperial Rome ruled by Cesar. Jesus was born in Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth. The holy family left to Egypt for a brief period before they returned back. Just a few days back in the Israeli Harretz : they discovered King Herod’s tomb. Jesus’s genealogy can be factually traced back to King David ( a real historical character) & even further up to Prophet Abraham.
Jesus traces his ancestry through his maternal grandfather Joachim, a descendant of the royal house of David ( Protoevangelium of James 2 AD, history of the 12 tribes of Israel). According to Roman census, Jesus Christ died on a Friday, 7th April, 30 AD. He was executed by Roman Pontius Pilate & hence his name went on record . That’s history !
Now, Krishna …Well he is fiction ! No genealogy, no time line, no historical or anthropological reference at all in any history or document , except for an Author’s imagination from the Mahabharata ( fiction epic) & the Vaishnava ( fiction based cult).
Jesus came on Earth in the form of a man, but immortal none the less ( he died but was resurrected according to Christian beliefs). & You compare him to Krishna ? In his life & recorded history / texts etc. Christ led a perfect life i.e. in a Godly sense ! “God” can be defined as someone supernatural, the Alpha & Omega, the pinnacle of perfection free from sin etc. Christ did not steal, kill, swear, beat up, lie, cheat etc during his lifetime as recorded ( Read the 4 Gospels). This can be attributed to “Godliness” !
Now compare Krishna : The word “fiction” or “myth” just comes on ur lips the moment u look at his portrait ! Like a typical B grade comic book “hero”, he looks freaky blue skinned – more like an Alien exiled from Uranus ! Heck, he could even give our cute “ET” a shiver down the spine for looking weird !!!
He plays the flute …ummmm uh okay !
Notice that the Hindoos depict / worship him as a “God”. But how much does he define “God” ?
– As a child & even later, apparently Krishna displays characteristics that are so typical of a “mortal” ! He STEALS buttermilk, Yoghurt, etc. STEALING = GODLINESS ???? He is annoying & naughty to his elders. IMMATURITY = GODLINESS ??? He runs behind girls ( skirt chaser) i.e. Radha . Why would any “God” ( even in the form of a man) need “Flesh” ? Only a mortal feels “horny” !
– Also notice that quite unlike Christ, Krishna threatens and SLAYS ( physically kills) the evil demons ! So much for being merciful duh. ? While Christ preached and practiced “love your enemies as thyself”, he never physically harmed anyone. Even when Peter cuts out the guard’s ear in the Garden of Gethsemene. Christ rebukes Peter & says “ he who lives by the sword, dies by it !” He then heals the guard’s ear. Christ forgave & even voluntarily sacrificed his life to fulfil the scriptures for mankind’s sins.
– Also note, that whenever hindoos criticize X’ianity as violent & aggressive. They quote verses from the Bible to support their views. What these morons don’t realize is that all the verses they quote are ripped from the Old Testament ( Judaism) and never the New Testament ( X’ianity) ! They quote Exodus, Deutronomy, Isiah etc all Old Testament texts. Don’t blame us X’ians..Maybe these Hindoos could join the anti Semitic brigade !
Now Hindoo “Gods” like typical immature B-comic book style scripts are seen as ruthless, testosterone driven mythical action “heroes” who slay monsters ! ( a la Buffy- the Vampire slayer or Xena- the warrior Princess ).
No sense of logic !
Take another instance of Rama, whom the Hindoos revere as a duh..great “God” ? Tell me in what way does he deserve such a title ? If u read the “Ramayana”, you’ll laugh ur guts out !
A brief review of Ramayana :
Ram is a confused, effeminate prince, son of North Indian Mythical King Dasarath. He needs his dumb hot blooded little brother Laxman as his henchman. Now, a noble Dravidian King Ravana has a younger sister. Notice that the Ramayana is one big racist mythology. Ramayana was written by Guru Valmiki ( a Northern Indo Aryan Brahmin) who like all his compatriots despised the dark skinned Dravidian southerners ! In this epic the Sanskrit upper caste author deliberately chooses a Dravidian character as the stereotype hindoo villain, even dehumanising all dark dravidian south Indians as “demons” / “Rakhsyas” ! Sick as it is….all the stereotype “heroes” are North Indian lighter skinned Indo-aryan characters !
The story goes on with Dravidian king Ravan’s sister who spots the lighter skinned Sanskritized Ram with wife Sita & chief lackey – Laxman. This myth goes on to tell us that Ravan’s sister finds Ram attractive & politely expresses her wish to him ( ram). And, what response does she get, guyz ? A bleeding nose ! Yieeeks…Nope, I’m serious. The moron Ram’s hot blooded bro Laxman, without warning draws out his sword and “ chops” of this poor innocent girl’s NOSE ! Omigosh ! And, what does “Lord” Rama do ? Nothing. He adds insult to injury be rebuking her rudely and pats Laxman on the back for the “good work” !!???
King Ravan gets the news, naturally like any brother, he becomes angry & goes beserk. To teach Ram a lesson on good manners, he kidnaps Sita ( It is clear that he intends her no harm & even treats her with honor and dignity). Ravan is far more honourable than Ram, as you’ll learn later ( read the Ramayana).
Well Ram, Laxman & his “secretary of defence” – monkey “god” Hanuman gather their army full of hindoo pagan freaks & actually FLY ( suspend disbelief !) on Aero chariots ( wow….they figured that out before the Bernoulli’s theorem & the Wright brothers). Gee ! Anyway the fly to SL ( Sri Lanka) & carpet bomb & blow to smithereens Ravana & the Island of SL ???? Hey, can someone tell me what the hell is modern day Sri Lanka ( SL) still doing on the world Atlas today ??? Besides, those SL “Rakhsyas” royally kicked the upper caste ridden Team India’s ass in the World cup cricket ! Huh..Fact vs fiction anyone ! Phew…anyway, back to the story : “Lord” ram is so damn stupid. After supposedly rescuing Sita from the “evil” Dravidian Ravana & decimating Sri Lanka from the world map ( hey, but its still there dude, duh !). He believes his King of Ayodhya & father Dasarath , & doubts the chastity of Sita ! Strange, did I miss something ? If Rama is an almighty “God”, how come he never knew the truth ???
Now, the dumbest & most unethical thing any husband can do is dump n kick his wife outta house for no reason. Rama enslaved by his delusion, does exactly that. He blames, insults & forcibly exiles a pregnant Sita for almost 2 decades ! Whatta sicko..that too the poor Sita is exiled in a rough jungle….yawn… yawn….in the end of this boring & senseless story, the family re-unite in a B grade Bollywood style !
Tell me Avi, Can this rama possible qualify as a “God” ? ..No ! Good, I know that too ! But hey, guess what, millions of hindoos esp. the Upper Castes believe otherwise. India’s chief hindoo festival is Diwali ( in honor of the Rama’s return to Ayodhya after anhilating king Ravana and Sri Lanka ???)..They even celebrate “Dusshera” ( hindoo upper caste made festival) where the “evil” dark skinned Dravidian Ravana & his ( suspend disbelief !) multiple heads are destroyed by toy fireworks ! In the end my friend….there is only one question to ponder on :
Hinduism & Logic ????? Antonyms ! Amen to that.
Diana Valkyrie ( Christian youth group)
Kelloski, Finland
I have noticed some posters ( Hindus) like Rajesh Kumar..who uses foul language ( eg :bullshit) when he describes X’ianity and Judiasm. YET, when my coherent and factual post has some casual slang…you people scream bloody murder ! Hypocrisy or double standards ? U decide.
Diana Valkyrie:
Quick response to your “edited” post.
1. I do not run my blog based on what other websites do/allow or not. This is my PERSONAL blog. You do not have to read it or agree with it.
2. Your edited post is still on the edge of what I would allow on this blog but I will let it stand.
3. Re. Krishna: Please have a look at the link in my comment # 42. Then we can discuss further.
4. Re. Krishna and Ram behaving as “mortals”, do try and read a bit more on why Hindus worship so many deities in “human” forms and with “human” attributes. Indeed, Rama has been portrayed in the Ramayana as human with all the attendant shortcomings. And yet, millions of people consider him as an “Avatar” of Vishnu and worship him accordingly.
Pl. understand that these are matters of “faith” and “belief”. From your comments it appears that your understanding of Hinduism appears to be very limited. Do read up a little more before engaging in such a debate.
5. This is not a post about Christ. It is about missionary actvities in India.
6. Your understanding about Ramayan is so shallow that is is not worth debating
7. Hinduism is not just Krishna, Rama, Ramayana. Have you ever heard or read about “Sanatan Dharma”?
8. Who is “Avi”? I think you have copied and pasted your response from some other site/blog.
Hi Shantanu!
Valkyrie is clearly ignorant and arrogant at the same time, making it a dangerous combination. His uneducated and mean-spirited tirade displays both these characteristics abundantly. Of course, he won’t be the first, nor the last who displays such “qualities”. I guess (from his ranting) that he is a Christian. Maybe his comments only reflect the way HIS SMALL MIND understands “his religion”. His denigrating other religions probably feeds his fragile ego and makes him feel good about how Christian he is! Though, I have to say, he just messes it up real bad. He misses the entire point of what Jesus tried to teach. THAT IS NOT WHAT JESUS WOULD HAVE DONE! But then, who cares? Right? “My brand of Christianity” is better than any other religion you are following!! Fortunately the many many Christian friends I have (and many Christians all over the world) do not think the way this idiot does. Amen to that!!
Dear Valkyrie
when did we(Hindus) said Jesus is less divine? When did we said we dont like what is in your scripture(Holy Bible), Though you said that to Hinduism, you foul mouthed all our history and dieties. That is ok, no Qualm about it. We are very tolerant people, We tolerated Moguls, britrishers and many refuges from other country in present, so we can tolerate you too. But you are really in need of counselling to assisit you to stop foul mouthing about other religion and, to understand the diversity and feelings of many all around the world. We are only against forced conversion not Christinity. You must understand that first.
I read the post of Valkyrie, and it have provided proof, the amount of venom they spew on other religion. How this people can preach others of divinity and humanity?
Better they take lesson from us. And what to say about this kind of organisation who don’t respect other religion or its followers? There thought process is no less than terrorist organisation or group.
To Valkyrie
You wrote——-Tell me Avi, Can this rama possible qualify as a “God” ? ..No ! Good, I know that too ! But hey, guess what, millions of hindoos esp. the Upper Castes believe otherwise. India’s chief hindoo festival is Diwali ( in honor of the Rama’s return to Ayodhya after anhilating king Ravana and Sri Lanka ???)..They even celebrate “Dusshera” ( hindoo upper caste made festival) where the “evil” dark skinned Dravidian Ravana & his ( suspend disbelief !) multiple heads are destroyed by toy fireworks ! In the end my friend….there is only one question to ponder on :
Hinduism & Logic ????? Antonyms ! Amen to that.———-
Why war is there between Afghanistan and US? Why war weapons are there in todays world where christians are in majority?
Simply, to eliminate the evil. Am I right? Dont you think when Al-queda’s head will vanished, will be the end of evil? yes we all think that.
So what is wrong in celebrating Dussera and Diwali? It is victory over evil.
Dont you see many soldiers are being killed everyday?
And it will be a celebration when we win the game and pay our tributes to our soldiers. Why do we celebrate a day in memory of our soldiers ? we do, so what is wrong if we celebrate Diwali and Dussera.
Common, be fair to everyone. Dont keep different standard for different people.
Harry and Indian: Thanks for your comments (particularly #47 and #48). Well said.
Hmm..I have been a silent reader of this wonderful blog for long. And i absolutely love the posts here. Thanks Shantanu. Keep up the good work.
What has though acutally brought me out from my anonymity is the extremely tasteless post #44 from Diana Valkyrie.
He is ignorant about even the details, leave alone significance of the characters. Let me clear a few things out, if you permit Shantanu.
Dear Diana Valkyrie ,
a) Rama -Fair Skinned Aryan: Hmm.. now lets roll it back…I have read the Ramayana – Valmiki and Kamban. And everywhere is he mentioned as dark. He is infact blue like Krishna and no sorry, he is not blue eyed or blonde.. you know what you like to think about Aryans and Caucaissians— i mean come on..try to do some research on the now defunct Aryan Invasion Theory.
b) Ravana-Dravidian-Dark Skinned- Hmm.. ok… So Ravana was Dravidian becuase he is supposed to dark skinned (Did not know that, but maybe you can provide me pointers. But not the ones found in the B Grade serials produced here in India, whose knowledge about these epics match yours or if possible even falls below them. For your information, Ravana was a scholar of the Vedas with few equals.Vedas- Supposedly composed by Aryans, you know.. well learnt by a dravidian.. oops a boo boo for you perhaps? Anyway.. Ravana also worhsipped and got boons and curses from an Aryan God -Shiva.. wow.. talk about national integration… Dravidians and Aryans actually mixing mingling and fighting with each other. wow. You know.. you are starting to contradict things…
c) Krishna – a horny guy – hmm. He gave people what they could understand you know poor folk with little understanding but a lot of devotion. Unlike Jesus, a wine producer. …. ouch it hurts.. does it not? I can also keep saying things which might hurt you even more. so…
Moral of the story- Do not take things in the literal sense, it will hurt you. Bad karma you know… will come around and bite you where it hurts the most.
Anything more might be information overload for you sir, i would rather stop here. Let me know when you have gained the required maturity and broadness of heart and mind to understand what these epics are about and why we are proud of our heritage.
Many Hindus are unaware of Sanatana Dharma and its real meaning and therefore you can get away with the kind of remarks that you made in your comment in other forums. But please understand, people who comment and read here are not that ignorant. If you are game enough, then do try to debate without using words like moron, hot blooded etc for Hindu Gods. You might actually gain something out of it. Ignorance is bliss and the surest way for making sure your foot is always in the mouth, especially the mouth that is loose enoguh to make statements without verification.
Shantanu says :
“7. Hinduism is not just Krishna, Rama, Ramayana. Have you ever heard or read about “Sanatan Dharma”?”
TRUE ! I never said, Hinduism is ONLY Ram/Krishna etc. Infact, I must admit I really admire Hindu Philosophy ( as a way of life in certain aspects rather than a religion !). Oh btw, I do know a lot about your faith/ culture. I have read and learnt about Hinduism. My friend Avi ( yes I did cut and paste my post from a website where I was chatting with my colleague Avi ) has even done a 10 page paper in his religious class at Uni. about the RSS-VHP and Hindutva. And we’re NOT impressed.
My point is : the very myth about these so called ‘ forced conversions” by X’ian missions ( who actually do this in a constructive and well meaning spirit) is just some of the typical feral propoganda and venom spewed by the right wing Hindutva groups. And Ironically your website promulgates this nefarious view. When you mean “forced conversions”..do you seriously expect the world to believe a bunch of unarmed and peaceful missionaries armed with only a bible entering the otherwise ignored areas of your country and serving and ACTUALLY doing something constructive to aid the oppressed Dalits, Sc’s and other so called lower castes as bad ?..all of whom ( i.e. Dalits, Sc’s, St’s etc) have been victims of the selfish and tyrannical upper caste oppression and exploitation for centuries. More imp. than all the financial aid, education, charity etc ,the X’ians gave them the most important gift ( something upper caste Hindus have never done) – Human dignity. As a X’ian there is no caste discrimination or Aprtheid. This gave the Dalits to raise their head and walk with dignity like other human beings.
1.The only way someone can “force” conversions is at gun point ! Now, do you seriously mean to tell me that the handful of unarmed X’ian men and women are using AK 47’s, Uzi Submachine guns and Krav Maga Martial arts to duhh.. forcibly CONVERT those in rural areas..that too with the odds bet against them ( An entire non X’ian village vs The minority X’ian missionary).
2. if this mythical propoganda about “forced conversions” were so true than WHY has India’s X’ian populace only amounted to a miniscule 2.6 % of the net population. Compare the stats from the 80’s and you would see India’s X’ian population actually decreasing ! Strange my RSS minded Hindoo !
3. Most of us already know that..all this feral propganda by the likes of the Hindutva and their fanatical NRI supporters ( not all NRI’s belong to this “certified nutcase” category) is nothing more than a reaction to the failure of Hinduism vs other Minority religions in India like Buddhism, X’ianity etc. The X’ians have done heaps to India’s progress…I’ll cover that later. Lets face it without the X’ian British and the various X’ian personalities, schools, medical centres, Universities etc…India would be left in the ledieval ages.
Guys I am NOT a he. I am a SHE ! Does that sound too difficult for your primitive cerebrums ?
Diana is a feminine name. Phew !
kannan, no offence. I have conversed with some Hindoo priests ( brahmins) who came from a place called Ayodhya ( Uttar Pradesh) in India. They have always mentioned Ram as an Indo Aryan figure. With light wheatish complexion. They even showed a tele serial of ramayana in the centre for multi cultural affairs here at Finland. The characters depicted the “good guys” i.e. Rama and his family as light skinned, clean shaven Northern Indians, whilst Ravana and the Rakhshyasa are all depicted as dark skinned, moustached and fat evil figures. The Brahmin priest explained that Ravan was a Dravidian kIng of Sri Lanka. He was clear the the Lankans were all evil ! I’m not even making this up. Its just way too racist ! As bad as the NAZI doctrines of Adolf Hitler and his cult religion – Teutonism ( which was anti X’ian). Both Hitler and the Hindu sages promoted this religious – racial segregation..the idea that Upper Castes are pure and superior whilst lower castes are inferior and should never be mixed. This reminds me about the evils of NAZI Hitler and his wacko brigade !
Oh and Kannan, Jesus turned water into wine. He was’nt a coomercial wine producer. Btw, it does’nt hurt.
*** COMMENT EDITED by MODERATOR ***
Diana: Watch your language. This is the last time I am asking you to be careful in the words you use.
From this point on, I will reserve the right to summarily delete your comments without explanation.
Ok Lady………
Got it in my dumb brain.
But you know i am ignorant about Foriegn names, like say you are still ignorant about Hindu Epics. Got confused. Thanks for the clarification and extremely sorry for the snafu with all the due humility. And oh this is not an Indian bowing to a foreigner, this is just a person being sorry for his mistake. Hope this pacifies you.
So the Hindu (It is not Hindoo, hope you get it straight the next time around.) priest actually told you this. Hmm, can you name this priest, because i would like to then debate with him. No point debating with you, you know. Your knowledge is from secondary sources which are not as good as primary sources as you would know. I am saying these from primary sources. So the next time, please quote from the primary sources. i would definitely like to take this further.
Aah see. you mentioned the tele serial, which are as dumb as any you can get. They could not get the escence of the epic through and one cannot blame them completely as the epic is something which you need to experience and seeing it on a TV does not do much for anyone.
I told you, please do mention any 2 bit TV serial. They just make some false teeth, hideous marks on the face to show the menace. Well Ravana could have had any woman he wanted, he was that handsome (read kamban’s ramayana) and therefore your assertion pretty stands ripped apart.
And well your comment for Krishna was as below the belt as it could get and therefore my assertion about Jesus as a wine producer. I am sorry to strain your sentiments, but please understand that a debate can be carried out without any name calling. Please learn that humility is perhaps more sharper than sarcastic name calling and extremely ignorant assertions.
I would request you to learn more and maybe read more from primary sources before you call people names. It would be useful for you and maybe then you can educate us where we are wrong.
Hi
Who so ever Valkyrie is, she needs vent to take out frustration and for that she choosed Hinduism which came into her way by chance. She is not an expert on Hinduism so her comment hardly counts. No matter what people say, Hinduism is thriving and has come a long way. By her so called lies and views nothing is going to change.
I find her Converted christians. Other wise orignal christians never use derogatory language or foul mouth other religion. We are protecting our religion but why is she why is she unnecessary locking horn. May be she is threatened by the high values of Hinduism.
Forced conversion is fact and their target is poor people. Not at gunpoint though but through fooling around.
By the way they have no daring to touch Hindus with higher conscious.
Kannan: Thanks for your very well articulated comments at # 52 and # 57.
Indian: Thanks for your comment too.
Diana: I am stunned by your combination of ignorance and arrogance.
You say: “Oh btw, I do know a lot about your faith/ culture. I have read and learnt about Hinduism. My friend Avi ( yes I did cut and paste my post from a website where I was chatting with my colleague Avi ) has even done a 10 page paper in his religious class at Uni. about the RSS-VHP and Hindutva.”
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
So your friend Avi has done a 10-paper about the RSS-VHP and Hindutva and you have met a few ignorant priests from Ayodhya and that leads you to conclude that you know a lot about our faith, culture? You cannot be serious Diana.
By the way, I notice that you still have not commented on the points raised in my earlier comment.
As for “forced conversions”, I do not think I have used this phrase either in my post or in my comments. Please read carefully before making sweeping statements.
To better understand my position on conversion, please read comment # 3 to this post https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/02/28/why-have-missionaries-chosen-to-attack-india/
As for what Christians and the British have done for India, as you say, that is a topic for another post.
Beyond this, I do not wish to engage in a debate or a discussion with you.
You display neither the maturity nor the humility that is needed for such an exercise and I do not wish to waste my time (or my readers’ time) on this.
Of course if you are willing to engage in a proper, reasoned and informed debate/discussion, I will welcome it very much.
Good luck with your Christian youth group.
I will use capitalized fonts just to easily distinquish my post vs your quotes. No offence ! I don’t have all day to go with each of the posters points..but I promise to get back to Indian and Shantanu. I’ll start with you Kannan.
“Ok Lady………
Got it in my dumb brain.
But you know i am ignorant about Foriegn names, like say you are still ignorant about Hindu Epics. Got confused. Thanks for the clarification and extremely sorry for the snafu with all the due humility. And oh this is not an Indian bowing to a foreigner, this is just a person being sorry for his mistake. Hope this pacifies you. ”
I NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE BOWING TO ANYONE. I DON’T WANT OR NEED TO SHOUT OUT LOUD THAT X’IANITY IS SUPERIOR TO HINDUISM. OH AND SORRY FOR THE SPELLING ERROR..ITS “HINDU”. DAMN THE YANKS FOR THEIR TYPO ERRORS. MY MAIN POINT IS TO GIVE A COUNTER ARGUMENT TO SOME FALLICIOUS CLAIMS AND OPENLY DERAGATORY REMARKS MADE BY NUMEROUS HINDU POSTERS ( MOSTLY NRI’S I BET !)BOTH ON THIS SITE AS WELL AS OTHER SUCH SITES. IF I COME ACROSS AS A TAD RUDE, I’M SORRY..BUT ITS ONLY A TASTE OF UR OWN MEDICINE. YOU MUST SEE SOME OF THE INSULTING REMARKS THEY MADE ON X’IANITY, JUDIASM AND JESUS TOO. THE PENDULUM SWINGS BOTH WAYS !
..” Hmm, can you name this priest, because i would like to then debate with him. No point debating with you, you know. Your knowledge is from secondary sources which are not as good as primary sources as you would know. I am saying these from primary sources. So the next time, please quote from the primary sources. i would definitely like to take this further. ”
THE PRIEST HAS A TITLE..I DON’T KNOW THESE HINDU ORGS TO PERSONALLY, BUT HIS NAME/TITLE WAS KAKA MAHARAJA FROM THE SHREE SWAMI SAMARTH…APARENTLY FROM HIS INTRO. IN THE CENTRE FOR MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS AT HELSINKI…HE SAID HE WAS FROM MAHARASTHRA, INDIA. THATS ALL I CAN FURNISH YOU REGARDING THE INFO. THE OTHER PUNDIT WAS SOME BRAHMIN SCHOLAR FROM KERELA ( I ONLY REMEMBER HIS SURNAME….VARMA). AS FOR PRIMARY SOURCES…DO U WANT ME TO PHYSICALLY PULL THESE PRIESTS AND GET THEM NFRONT OF MY COMP…???
“ah see. you mentioned the tele serial, which are as dumb as any you can get. They could not get the escence of the epic through and one cannot blame them completely as the epic is something which you need to experience and seeing it on a TV does not do much for anyone.
I told you, please do mention any 2 bit TV serial. They just make some false teeth, hideous marks on the face to show the menace. Well Ravana could have had any woman he wanted, he was that handsome (read kamban’s ramayana) and therefore your assertion pretty stands ripped apart. ”
IF WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS TRUE…THEN I GUESS FURTHER RESEARCH INTO THE MATTER IS VALIDATED. BUT MOST HINDUS HERE, HINDU POSTERS, PICTURES OF DIETIES ETC HAVE ALWAYS DEPICTED THEM IN THE “STEREOTYPICAL FAIR WHEATISH SKIN TONE”…AND WHENEVER THERE IS MENTION OF A DEMON…ITS ALWAYS A DARK SKINNED HAIRY ICON APPARENTLY FROM THE SOUTH. DO YOU KNOW MANY UPPER CASTE NORTH INDIANS ACTUALLY REFER TO DRAVIDIAN SOUTH INDIANS AS RAKHSYSA..AKA DEMONS. THE RACISM I SEE BETWEEN DIFF. INDIAN GROUPS IS SO DISGUSTING THAT IT MAKES THE NEO NAZIS AND WHITE SUPREMACIST JERKS LOOK LIKE A BUNCH OF KIDS ON SESAME STREET ! BTW, ISN’T INDIA A MORE COLOR CONSCIOUS SOCIETY THAN EVEN FINLAND ? FROM TV ADS TO MATRIMONIAL PROPOALS AND WHITENING COSMETICS…ETC ETC ?
And well your comment for Krishna was as below the belt as it could get and therefore my assertion about Jesus as a wine producer. I am sorry to strain your sentiments, but please understand that a debate can be carried out without any name calling. Please learn that humility is perhaps more sharper than sarcastic name calling and extremely ignorant assertions.
REFER TO MY REPLY BELOW….I FELT THE SAME ( BELOW THE BELT) WHEN I SAW SOME PREPOSTEROUS COMMENTS ABOUT JESUS AND OTHER DERIDING WORDS ABOUT THE BIBLE ETC. EG : RAJESH KUMAR IN AN EARLIER POST USING PROFANITY.
I would request you to learn more and maybe read more from primary sources before you call people names. It would be useful for you and maybe then you can educate us where we are wrong.
i DID ENOUGH READING…MAYBE I NEED TO READ MORE THOUGH. BUT ITS FAILY OBVIOUS THAT YOU COULD START RECTIFYING THE EVIL AND RACIST CASTE SYSTEM. THE ABSURD LAWS ON DISCRIMINATING WOMEN AND DALITS FROM ENETERING CERTAIN TEMPLES ETC ETC…..AND OFCOURSE, SOME OF THE MORONIC ( i’M SORRY GOTTA USE THIS WORD) ACTIONS AND CLAIMS BY THE RSS AND VHP. THE RECENT SCANDAL ABOUT THE FAKE SO CALLED ISRO SCIENTIST OF THE RSS CLAIMING THERE WAS AN ANCIENT LAND BRIDGE BET. SLANKA AND INDIA TO PROVE THE MYTHICAL RAMAYANA..WAS ONE BIG FIASCO WHICH HAS SINCE EMBARASSED THE BJP GOVT AND DEMOTED IT TO YET ANOTHER PARTY WITH 0 % CREDIBILITY IN INDIA !!
Indian
Hi
Who so ever Valkyrie is, she needs vent to take out frustration and for that she choosed Hinduism which came into her way by chance. She is not an expert on Hinduism so her comment hardly counts. No matter what people say, Hinduism is thriving and has come a long way. By her so called lies and views nothing is going to change.
HINDUISM IS THRIVING AND SO ARE OTHER RELIGIONS IN A MUCH BETTER WAY FROM X’IANITY, ISLAM, BUDDHISM ETC. BUT THE FASTEST GROWING NEO CULTS ARE KABBALAH, SCIENTOLOGY AND BAHAISM. I WISH THE BEST FOR HINDUISM…ALTHOUGH I DISAGREE WITH THE RADICAL RSS BRAND OF THE SAME ENTITY.
I find her Converted christians. Other wise orignal christians never use derogatory language or foul mouth other religion. We are protecting our religion but why is she why is she unnecessary locking horn. May be she is threatened by the high values of Hinduism.
EVER HEARD OF LATERAL INVERSION..INDIAN ?
Forced conversion is fact and their target is poor people. Not at gunpoint though but through fooling around.
OBVIOULSY YOU HAVE NOT READ MY EARLIER POSTS. EITHER THAT OR UR ARE UNABLE TO FIGURE OUT !
i’LL CUT AND PASTE THE FOLLOWING FROM MY PREVIOUS POST…AND TRY ANSWER THEM. ( THEY R GIVEN BELOW IN SMALL FONTS)
1.The only way someone can “force” conversions is at gun point ! Now, do you seriously mean to tell me that the handful of unarmed X’ian men and women are using AK 47’s, Uzi Submachine guns and Krav Maga Martial arts to duhh.. forcibly CONVERT those in rural areas..that too with the odds bet against them ( An entire non X’ian village vs The minority X’ian missionary).
2. if this mythical propoganda about “forced conversions” were so true than WHY has India’s X’ian populace only amounted to a miniscule 2.6 % of the net population. Compare the stats from the 80’s and you would see India’s X’ian population actually decreasing !
“By the way they have no daring to touch Hindus with higher conscious.”
I COULD SAY THE SAME ABOUT YOUR ISCHIKON-HARE KRISHNA, SWAMI SAMBHODHAY AND OTHER HINDU MISSION GROUPS IN THE CHRISTIAN AND SECULAR WEST. DON’T BE A HYPOCRITE !
Shantanu :
Kannan: Thanks for your very well articulated comments at # 52 and # 57.
Indian: Thanks for your comment too.
Diana: I am stunned by your combination of ignorance and arrogance.
SO U DELETE MY POSTS, USE DOUBLE STANDARDS…I.E. THE CASE OF RAJESH KUMAR’S OPEN PROFANITIES AGAINST X’IANITY VS MY CASUAL SLANG ETC ETC..AND YEAH YOU MENTION “ARROGANCE” AND “IGNORANCE”….LOOK WHO’S TALKIN” !!!!
You say: “Oh btw, I do know a lot about your faith/ culture. I have read and learnt about Hinduism. My friend Avi ( yes I did cut and paste my post from a website where I was chatting with my colleague Avi ) has even done a 10 page paper in his religious class at Uni. about the RSS-VHP and Hindutva.”
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
YOU COULD SO BOTH, IN THE END IT WILL SINK IN ! AS FOR ME , I’VE HAD MY FAIR SHARE AFTER READING THE LUDUCROUS BILE IN ALL THESE HINDU RADICAL SITES.
So your friend Avi has done a 10-paper about the RSS-VHP and Hindutva and you have met a few ignorant priests from Ayodhya and that leads you to conclude that you know a lot about our faith, culture? You cannot be serious Diana.
By the way, I notice that you still have not commented on the points raised in my earlier comment.
WHICH IS ?????
As for “forced conversions”, I do not think I have used this phrase either in my post or in my comments. Please read carefully before making sweeping statements.
DUNNO ABOUT YOU, BUT MOST HERE AND ELSEWHERE SEEM TO LOUDLY YELL ABOUT THIS “FORCED CONVERSION” NONSENSE !
To better understand my position on conversion, please read comment # 3 to this post https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/02/28/why-have-missionaries-chosen-to-attack-india/
As for what Christians and the British have done for India, as you say, that is a topic for another post.
Beyond this, “I do not wish to engage in a debate or a discussion with you.”
CHEERIO…HOW CONVENIENT. MOST OF YOU SIMPLY CHOOSE TO CHIMP OUT. WHY DOES FAILURE SUDDENLY HIT MY MIND. BY THE WAY, PLS. USE SOME OTHER ” LINE” AS AN EXCUSE TO BACK OUT..THAT ONE’S GETTING OLD AND BORING !
You display neither the maturity nor the humility that is needed for such an exercise and I do not wish to waste my time (or my readers’ time) on this.
BINGO ! REFER TO MY PREVIOUS STATEMENT.
Of course if you are willing to engage in a proper, reasoned and informed debate/discussion, I will welcome it very much.
Good luck with your Christian youth group.
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR HINDU MISSION GROUP(S) !
Dear Diana,
Please see my responses in lower cases
I NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE BOWING TO ANYONE. I DON’T WANT OR NEED TO SHOUT OUT LOUD THAT X’IANITY IS SUPERIOR TO HINDUISM. OH AND SORRY FOR THE SPELLING ERROR..ITS “HINDU”. DAMN THE YANKS FOR THEIR TYPO ERRORS. MY MAIN POINT IS TO GIVE A COUNTER ARGUMENT TO SOME FALLICIOUS CLAIMS AND OPENLY DERAGATORY REMARKS MADE BY NUMEROUS HINDU POSTERS ( MOSTLY NRI’S I BET !)BOTH ON THIS SITE AS WELL AS OTHER SUCH SITES. IF I COME ACROSS AS A TAD RUDE, I’M SORRY..BUT ITS ONLY A TASTE OF UR OWN MEDICINE. YOU MUST SEE SOME OF THE INSULTING REMARKS THEY MADE ON X’IANITY, JUDIASM AND JESUS TOO. THE PENDULUM SWINGS BOTH WAYS !
Please differentiate people who make crude remarks and who dont. If one person makes insulting remarks does not mean others are doing it too. So please serve the medicine where it is due. I am not sick enough to deserve it.
THE PRIEST HAS A TITLE..I DON’T KNOW THESE HINDU ORGS TO PERSONALLY, BUT HIS NAME/TITLE WAS KAKA MAHARAJA FROM THE SHREE SWAMI SAMARTH…APARENTLY FROM HIS INTRO. IN THE CENTRE FOR MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS AT HELSINKI…HE SAID HE WAS FROM MAHARASTHRA, INDIA. THATS ALL I CAN FURNISH YOU REGARDING THE INFO. THE OTHER PUNDIT WAS SOME BRAHMIN SCHOLAR FROM KERELA ( I ONLY REMEMBER HIS SURNAME….VARMA). AS FOR PRIMARY SOURCES…DO U WANT ME TO PHYSICALLY PULL THESE PRIESTS AND GET THEM NFRONT OF MY COMP…???
You mentioned the priest was from Ayodhya (reference your comments above). THere is no place in either maharashtra or kerala called Ayodhya. Maybe you can let me know if there is anything wrong in what i said.
IF WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS TRUE…THEN I GUESS FURTHER RESEARCH INTO THE MATTER IS VALIDATED. BUT MOST HINDUS HERE, HINDU POSTERS, PICTURES OF DIETIES ETC HAVE ALWAYS DEPICTED THEM IN THE “STEREOTYPICAL FAIR WHEATISH SKIN TONE”…AND WHENEVER THERE IS MENTION OF A DEMON…ITS ALWAYS A DARK SKINNED HAIRY ICON APPARENTLY FROM THE SOUTH. DO YOU KNOW MANY UPPER CASTE NORTH INDIANS ACTUALLY REFER TO DRAVIDIAN SOUTH INDIANS AS RAKHSYSA..AKA DEMONS. THE RACISM I SEE BETWEEN DIFF. INDIAN GROUPS IS SO DISGUSTING THAT IT MAKES THE NEO NAZIS AND WHITE SUPREMACIST JERKS LOOK LIKE A BUNCH OF KIDS ON SESAME STREET ! BTW, ISN’T INDIA A MORE COLOR CONSCIOUS SOCIETY THAN EVEN FINLAND ? FROM TV ADS TO MATRIMONIAL PROPOALS AND WHITENING COSMETICS…ETC ETC ?
Again, please read as much as you can and maybe please visit India to see the truth maybe? Your statements that South Indians are black skinned and hairy is in itself racist in a subtle way. And I am a South Indian, settled in North Inda (not any NRI) and i know for a fact there is no, repeat no racism towards South Indians from North Indians and vice versa( lower and upper caste included). What i can see is ignorance. But as Jesus said, Forgive their ignorance
i DID ENOUGH READING…MAYBE I NEED TO READ MORE THOUGH. BUT ITS FAILY OBVIOUS THAT YOU COULD START RECTIFYING THE EVIL AND RACIST CASTE SYSTEM. THE ABSURD LAWS ON DISCRIMINATING WOMEN AND DALITS FROM ENETERING CERTAIN TEMPLES ETC ETC…..AND OFCOURSE, SOME OF THE MORONIC ( i’M SORRY GOTTA USE THIS WORD) ACTIONS AND CLAIMS BY THE RSS AND VHP. THE RECENT SCANDAL ABOUT THE FAKE SO CALLED ISRO SCIENTIST OF THE RSS CLAIMING THERE WAS AN ANCIENT LAND BRIDGE BET. SLANKA AND INDIA TO PROVE THE MYTHICAL RAMAYANA..WAS ONE BIG FIASCO WHICH HAS SINCE EMBARASSED THE BJP GOVT AND DEMOTED IT TO YET ANOTHER PARTY WITH 0 % CREDIBILITY IN INDIA
I donot understand the connection with BJP here? I am only trying to point out inaccuracies in your assertions. I do not want to drag the politics here. Caste system did not exist for a long time. Please refer to one of Shantanu’s earlier posts (Shantanu : can you please show her the link? I am not able to find it in the archives easily:( THanks a lot in advance for that wonderful post)
As regards to the sethusamudram project. do proceed to ivarta.com
Here is just one link…
http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_070522.htm
maybe you will be able to read through it.
Thanks.
Kannan
*** COMMENT COMBINED ***
@ Indian:
“Forced conversion is fact and their target is poor people. Not at gunpoint though but through fooling around. ”
FORCED CONVERSION…FOOLING AROUND ??????????????????????????????
TALKING ABOUT DELUSION OR JUST A TOTAL ABSENCE OF LOGIC MY FRIEND !!!!
forced conversion = fooling around….hahahahahah…cool ! I’ve learnt something new from our hindu friends here. Thanx, the next time I am compelled to payback my medical college loans ( I am a 19 year old 1st year med student)..I’ll forcibly convert my financial aid officer to reconsider me repaying the loan….by hmmmm duh..Bingo – FOOLING AROUND !!!! Yeah hahahahahaha just “fooling around” !!!
@ Kannan:
“You mentioned the priest was from Ayodhya (reference your comments above). THere is no place in either maharashtra or kerala called Ayodhya. Maybe you can let me know if there is anything wrong in what i said.”
HE SAID THAT HIS NATIVE PLACE WAS MAHARASHTRA, BUT HE WAS BASED IN AYODHYA. FROM WHAT I LEARNT, AYODHYA IS LIKE THE CENTRAL HOLY SITE FOR HINDUS ALL OVER INDIA ..JUZ LIKE HOW CATHOLICS HAVE ROME, ITALY..OR JEWS HAVE JERUSALEM, ISRAEL.
“Your statements that South Indians are black skinned and hairy is in itself racist in a subtle way.”
RACIST ???? TELL ME HOW ELSE CAN I PHYSICALLY DESCRIBE WHAT I SAW. NOTE, I DID NOT USE ANY PROFANITIES OR ANY TERM VULGAR TO DESCRIBE THE HINDU DEMONS DEPICTED BY HINDUS THEMSELVES.
*** NOTE by MODERATOR ***
Diana: Please use the established convention of putting your comments in a single post and distinguishing them by using the @ symbol (as above) and/or referring to comment #s.
Also, writing in all capital letters is considered “shouting” as you may know. Stick to quotation marks and line breaks to distinguish your remarks from other people’s comments, if possible.
Thanks.
Diana:
Your comment at #60 suggests to me that you may be willing to engage in a more rational debate than name-calling, mud-slinging and sweeping statements.
Hence this rejoinder. But first a few clarifications:
*** Re. Double Standards (referred to in your comment #62 ***
You edited one of your earlier posts (#40) and re-posted it as # 44.
I mentioned in my comment (at #45), point 2 that it was still is still on the edge of what I would allow on this blog but I will let it stand.
I said that because even your “edited” post had phrases like “moron Ram” and mentioned that Krishna “looks freaky blue skinned” and “could even give our cute “ET” a shiver down the spine for looking weird !!!”
Rajesh Kumar’s comment uses words like bull shit, stupid and idiotic for describing Christianity.
You write: “Hindoo “Gods” are seen as ruthless, testosterone driven mythical action “heroes” who slay monsters”
So we can get into an endless debate here about which is more insulting.
I don’t think that is really useful. And if you think it shows double standards, that is your judgement.
But coming back to the discussion and the topic.
*** Re. the points I had raised earlier to which you have not responded ***
The points that I was referring to (my comment at #46), which you have not responded to were at no.3 and no. 4.
I had also suggested you read a little bit more about “Ramayana” – which will help you avoid making some fairly basic mistakes that Kannan has already alluded to.
I also wonder if you had a chance to read my comment # 3 to this post https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/02/28/why-have-missionaries-chosen-to-attack-india/ – What do you think of the example and tactics I have mentioned there?
*** Re. the points raised in your comment #60 ***
You mention that “MANY UPPER CASTE NORTH INDIANS ACTUALLY REFER TO DRAVIDIAN SOUTH INDIANS AS RAKHSYSA..AKA DEMONS”
Have you travelled to India, Diana? How many “North Indians” do you know with whom you have had this sort of discussion? If you did not hear this but read it somewhere, I would like to know where.
As Kannan has suggested, please do endeavour and read a little bit more about Hinduism and India and its past. Relying on too little knowledge to make strong arguments is dangerous.
You say that “BUT ITS FAILY OBVIOUS THAT YOU COULD START RECTIFYING THE EVIL AND RACIST CASTE SYSTEM.”
Indeed. Pl. read this post: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/07/02/is-this-too-much-to-ask/
“THE ABSURD LAWS ON DISCRIMINATING WOMEN AND DALITS FROM ENETERING CERTAIN TEMPLES ETC ETC…..” – I agree. Pl. refer to this post: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/04/19/shameful-and-inexcusable/
As for RSS, VHP and/or BJP, I am not a member of any of them nor is this site affilaited to any of these organisations – or to any other organisation for that matter.
And if you really are in a mood for a robust discussion, I would be very interested in your views on:
1] The movie “Jesus Camp” (and this post: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/02/15/scariest-movie-of-the-year/ )
2] the videos that are linked to in this post: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/07/06/cauvery-layout-videos/ – If what is being described in the video is true, do you think it is right?
Dear Shantanu:
I have been following the discussion between Diana V and others for the last so many days. Diana’s sweetly worded arguments to prove that Hinduism is a religion of the uninitiated were so strong that it got me into thinking mode. How kind of her to have mildly suggested to us stupid “hindoos” that not all is lost, that we still have hope for redemption, if only we would listen to some sober voice such as hers. For the sake of the ignorant, she was even willing to give us “A brief review of Ramayana :
“Ram is a confused, effeminate prince, son of North Indian Mythical King Dasarath. He needs his dumb hot blooded little brother Laxman as his henchman. Now, a noble Dravidian King Ravana has a younger sister. Notice that the Ramayana is one big racist mythology. Ramayana was written by Guru Valmiki ( a Northern Indo Aryan Brahmin) who like all his compatriots despised the dark skinned Dravidian southerners ! In this epic the Sanskrit upper caste author deliberately chooses a Dravidian character as the stereotype hindoo villain, even dehumanising all dark dravidian south Indians as “demons” / “Rakhsyas” ! Sick as it is….all the stereotype “heroes” are North Indian lighter skinned Indo-aryan characters !”
How true! Such idiocy on our part! I even thought Valmiki was not a Brahmin. We “hindoos” can’t even understand our own epic! But God is Merciful. He has sent our lovable Diana so our souls will be saved. So what do you think I did? I got in touch with my friend Paul. (Name changed, since he is a very unassuming person and shuns publicity). I was desperate to get out of this “hindoo cult”, come what may.
Paul was happy I called him. He said. “ Nandan, Thank you for calling. I was going to come to you. You see, I have been thinking of reverting to “Hinduism”. I have been reading some articles from the site http://www.creationtheory.org/ . Now I am convinced only Hinduism is the true religion.” He insisted I read the section “Playing God” at least.
What the heck!. Here I am wanting desperately to get out of “hindooism”. But this friend of mine is forbidding me to do so. So I decide to see what is in the site. And what do you think is in there? Well, to be honest, it is so confusing. I think it will need some evolved mind to comprehend deeper truth. I was wondering if Diana could help us all. She has such simple, down to earth approach to explain things. And who are we “hindoos” to interpret such profound things?. Remember, we could not even tell a “she” from a “he”. What is the use of living like a frog in the well?
I was hoping Shantanu, may be you could convince her to show us the right way! She could do so by explaining what this site is trying to teach us. Then all of us will stand in queue behind Diana who will show us the way to Heaven. We will accept her as our Saviour. As any true follower, we will insist she goes first.
Creationism versus Science
http://www.creationtheory.org/
The following topics have been discussed here.
Introduction
Debating
Probability
6-Day Creationism
Biblical Morality
Essays
The Philosophy of Intelligent Design: Why Intelligent Design Theory is Completely Useless
Fundie Phrase Dictionary
Skeptic Theology 101
Intelligent Design “Theory”
A Brief History of American Fundamentalism
(by Yefim Galkine)
Imperfections in Science
The Care and Feeding of Analogies
Morality comes from
Humans, not God!
Evolution & White Supremacism
The Nuremberg Deception
Hitler’s Religion
Granularity
A Christian’s Comments
on Creationism
Religious Opportunism
School Prayer and
“the Wall of Separation”
Terrorism in the Bible
Flavours of Christianity
Playing God
Science, the Grand Illusion,
and Other Neat Stuff
*** Corrected ***
Now I am convinced only Hinduism is the true religion.” He insisted I read the section “Playing God” at least.
NANDAN….I COULD SHOW YOU PROBABLY A MILLION SUCH TESTIMONIES FROM HARD CORE HINDUS WHO HAVE OVER THE DECADES VOLUNTARILY ( BY THEIR OWN ACCORD) CONVERTED INTO X’IANITY. BUT, QUITE UNLIKE YOU….I WOULD STEER CLEAR OF THIS JUEVENILLE TOPIC. YOU HAVE GROSSLY MIS QUOTED MY EARLIER STATEMENTS !
And if you really are in a mood for a robust discussion, I would be very interested in your views on:
1] The movie “Jesus Camp” (and this post: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/02/15/scariest-movie-of-the-year/ )
2] the videos that are linked to in this post: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/07/06/cauvery-layout-videos/ – If what is being described in the video is true, do you think it is right?
As for the movie…..it does not hold true for mainstream X’ianity like Catholocism or main stream Protestant churches. It covers hardcore radical right wing Bible thumping nutters..no one cares about ! Besides, these Evangelicals are still a far cry from the even dumber and far worse Hindutva nut jobs that are more to be found….
Those Missionaries DON’T Kill or cause nation wide riots, genocides etc like the babri Masjid or Godhra riots…caused by the Upper Caste Hindu groups like RSS , Vhp etc. Do u know that the RSS is actually listed as a Terrorist organisation by the FBI-CIA. NO X’ian org ( no matter how lateral) has been so demoted to this all time low position.
***
“What do you think of the example and tactics I have mentioned there?”
1. Shantanu and others, refer to my previous posts. Since the topic all over is this myth called FORCED CONVERSIONS….does any of that “tactic” includes using “forcibly converting” someone at gunpoint etc ??? OR is it ( as “indian” put it…) just “fooling around” to force conversions ????
2. I did read the Ramayana. The very fact that Ram DOUBTED Sita’s chastity ( which was false ofcourse) depicts Rama as a faltered human aka falliable mortal. How can anyone logically call him a GOD ???? Maybe some of our Hindu friends need to refer to a dictionary on the very meaning of the three letter word GOD before including any Tom, Dick n Harry within that domain.
*** EDITED COMMENT ***
“…It is true that the OT (Old Terror) contains a lot of violent and pornful acts like that of… wait… let me quote from a Kirustian site:
Bear in mind that our Holy Bible is loaded with nasty expressions of tremendously risque acts. The Bible instructs us extensively on premature ejaculation (Leviticus 15:2-15; 22:3-5), wet dreams (Leviticus 15:16-18, 32), voyeurism (Leviticus 18:6-20), bestiality (Leviticus 18:23), people who “go a whoring” and commit “whoredom” (Leviticus 20:5-6; 25:1; Ezekiel 23:1-49; Hosea 4:10
(edited for brevity)
For your remark, here is some verses from NT(New Terror). Read it carefully and never say your religion stands for love or any other good things. For your reading pleasure I’m giving you another website address, for which you will thank me later! Here is the url
1) But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.’ After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.( Luke 19:26-28)” – This guy(Jesus) is so popular for saying ‘Turn your other cheek’ thing!
2) “He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.( Luke 22:36)” – Surely no one use a sword to chip the vegetable, but do use it for what? Chip the neck!! One interesting thing about this guy is that the mooslims revere him very high regard!
3) “Do not suppose that I (Jesus) have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.( Matthew 10:34)” – He told the truth!
4) “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters- yes, even his own life- he cannot be my disciple.(Luke 14:26)” – We call such people ‘Hatemonger’, don’t we?!
5) “He that is not with me is against me”. (Matthew 12:30) – 🙂
Here is some pieces from OT(Old Terror). Bear in mind that according to Kirustians, Jesus was/is a GOD. So every single word in the OT(Old Terror) are Jesus’. Moreover kirustians are expected to abide by the Law(OT)!
1) I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37)
2) “…Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.” (Deuteronomy 13:13)
3) “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.”
… and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel.
“Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife!”
(Judges 21:10-24)
…
5) Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.(Exodus 22:19 NAB) – Example for the great kirustian tolerance!
6) Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18) – Wow!
Last but not least! Everyone knows that Hitler killed a lot of Jews. How many know he was a ‘good kirustian’? Hitler killed Jews for what he was commanded by his religion. Here is the proof!
1) Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord
2) “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” – Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941
3) If these people try to disparage the importance of the spoken word today, they do it only because they realize – God be praised and thanked – how futile all their own speechifying has been.
The great butcher of our times was a hard-core kirustian! But it is the kirustians who want to depict him as an atheist and racist.
…”
Vlad
You said,
“…It is true that the OT (Old Terror) contains a lot of violent and pornful acts like that of… wait… let me quote from a Kirustian site: Bear in mind that our Holy Bible is loaded with nasty expressions of tremendously risque acts. The Bible instructs us extensively on premature ejaculation (Leviticus 15:2-15; 22:3-5), wet dreams (Leviticus 15:16-18, 32), voyeurism (Leviticus 18:6-20), bestiality (Leviticus 18:23), people who “go a whoring” and commit “whoredom” (Leviticus 20:5-6; 25:1; Ezekiel 23:1-49; Hosea 4:10.”
Vlad, either you are too smart and hence trying your hand in misleading those who haven’t read the Bible, OR you are too naive as to not understand these passages that you have quoted.
In none of these references quoted, is the Bible EVER approving or accepting those acts, instead the Bible is ACTUALLY ABHORING them. All these acts are shown in a negative light, never positive. The very fact that such shameful things are recorded in it, is another proof of the Bible’s authenticity as God’s Word, which doesnot stop short of presenting the Facts as they are. It doesnot spare even the people of God and the great men and Kings (who served this true God) in their sinful and immoral acts. The Bible SURELY records it, but always in the condeming tone not condoning tone. Understand this simple difference.
God bless you as you read the Bible and help you in grasping it the way it is written.
1. Christian missioanries are everywhere, where they can harvest souls. As previous Pope declared, 21st Century is Asia to harvest souls for Christ and plant Crosses all across. So, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, SE Asian buddhist nations are main targets.
2. In SE Asia, main target now Cambodia. An European friend of mine, sometime back told me going to Cambodia for missionary work. Hindus and Buddhists are easy to convert, as they are gullible people. And most Hindus and Buddhists don’t care for fellow Hindus/Buddhists.
3. India is a priority target, as it is a big market (means lots of poor gullible Hindus) for soul-harvesting business. India got no worthwhile law by name to counter missionaries onslaught on Hindus and follower of other Indic religions (sikhs, buddists, jains).
4. Below are few examples of christian missioanry onslaghts on Indic religions. Please read and forward to others. We need to create world-wide awareness.
A. Hinduism under Threat (Onslaught on Hindus by Christian Missionaries)
http://protectreligions.org/images/pdfs/threat%20to%20hinduism%20%28full%20version%29.pdf
B. Missionaries Roil Northeast India
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2000/11-12/2000-11-10.shtml
C. John Dayal :: Weblog :: Indian Christians tell UN of persecution
Statement before the UN Special Rapporteur,
New Delhi 5th March 2008
http://apps.trocaire.org/justworld/johndayal/weblog/411.html
D. Korean Bible studies with Taekwondo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/7314623.stm
5. Here is a quotation of Gandhiji, which is as relevant today as it was in his lifetime. Whether, we like or dislike, agree or disagree some actions of Gandhiji, his name is still the Effective Voice of India, inside and outside. People outside listens, revered and take his name to run their movements. We must use Gandhiji’s voice and words to keep exposing the barbaric designs of christian missionaries.
“It is impossible for me to reconcile myself to the idea of conversion after the style that goes on in India and elsewhere today. It is an error which is perhaps the greatest impediment to the world’s progress toward peace … Why should a Christian want to convert a Hindu to Christianity? Why should he not be satisfied if the Hindu is a good or godly man?” ~MK Gandhi
Harijan (30 January 1937)
Bharat
=====
No holy book is god’s words. It is all man made stories. One don’t need religion to be good, honest, and meanless. It is in your heart and mind what you wish to be. Prayers, slokas, good deeds and mantras helps us to rise from impurity to purity, from darkness to enlightment. Just stick to it, let people say whatever they want. One more thing Mahatama Gandhi said and I find it very true. “God is not true, but truth is God.
Visit http://www.himalayanacademy.com. You will be surprised not only those who are born Hindus but also from other religions. People have come together to celebrate Hinduism.
Indian,
I have had my disagreements with you elsewhere, but I wanted to take the time to say how much I appreciate your comments in this post. Especially, the last one.
We need more thinkers like you in this nation.
Thanks.
*** COMMENT EDITED by MODERATOR ***
…as far as cristian missioneries are concerned…vry dogma has the right to preach itself….if certain hindus are getting converted to this faith….why should others bother…afterall those new converts have full freedom of expression and choice….no one can enforce them not to practice their freedom of choice…hinduism surely needs reformation inorder to preserve its remaining adherents otherwise the time is not far away wen the hindus realise the limitations in their religion on the basis of logic , reason and rationality…..wat cristian missionaries are proselytizing is nothing but the message of love preached and practised by jesus himself…….if hindus agree tat all religions are same…and all ways leads to the same God….why is there so much fuss if some people change their ways of achieving salvation afterall all the ways are ways of salvation….this is mere hypocrisy……
Indian,
That’s your opinion ragarding Holy Books, just Like I have mine regarding Bible. I cannot impose my belief in the Bible on you, nor can you impose your ideas regarding Holy Books on me.
Its now your ideas versus mine. What makes you think you have got it right?
Do you think that the millions, especially scholars, scientists, historians and statesman who hold on to the truths in the Bible never got the bright idea that you just got in here now. Dear friend, in the past 2000 years people have readily agreed to die in persecution holding on to what they have EXPERIENCED (not just blindly believed) about the God in the Bible, than simply rejecting and denying the Bible and save their skin. Check the history out buddy. NOBODY EVER DIED FOR A LIE. NOBODY DIES FOR SOMETHING THEY DON’T FULLY BELIEVE IN.
Take time friend to do some research before making any kind of sweeping statements; it only goes to show your poor scholarship and immaturity.
All the best. My love and prayers for you anyway
Anand, Bharat, Indian, Patriot, Prince: Thanks for your comments and for sharing your thoughts.
Part of my own thoughts on the issue of conversions etc are in this post:
https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/02/28/why-have-missionaries-chosen-to-attack-india/
….wow…huh..very gud comments of all the ppl here….
like to appreciate dianas bold remarks….vlads message….anands interpratation ….bharats informative article….patriots systematic analysis….would like to add som points to the above interesting comments
1…frankly speaking watever diana presented were facts from indian history…..(the argument overcomes the rigidity of the comments) . she just tried to point out the argument in response to the rabid statements against cristianity….but except a few i didnt find any comment giving a reply to her points raised….
2.@vlad:- there are many verses in christianity which speaks blatant……but our concern is not to scan christian or hindu scriptures….coz even hindu scriptures contain similar verses more or less of the same magnitude….
3.@anand:- you are right in stating that….verses can be interpretated in a more logical and reasonable manner under the the supervision of right knowledge and guidance…so we doesnt need to jump on any conclusion once we come across any verse of our nonparent religion…..
…indian subcontinent was a home to lots of religions from time immemorial …..from ages people of different cultures tried to make a mark on this land….and now all have assimilated to be recognized under one name “hinduism” a name which was coined by britishers for the first time to denote the religion of the natives……
…..indian culture and traditions had become septic till the time islam and christianity made entry on indian soil……as they were more organized than the indigenous lot….there was a lot of corruption in all the various fields of life …..spiritual,social,economical,education etc…..and the most dreadful diseases like caste system, supertition etc had already risen their ugly heads……
…it were the foreigners whose efforts lead to the abolition of most of the anti social elements of hinduism which had effected the indian society and thats why one cld find hoardes of indians embracing foreign religions…..but now just trying to evade the dark spots of indian society and blaming on foreigners will serve no purpouse as it is a well known fact that the superstition and stone age practices prevalant in indian society had taken a heavy toll of peace , advancment , and foreign policies…thats why we could find herd of foreign invasions on indian soil only to be met by a feeble resistance from the natives validating the point that the natives were themselves in a war torn situation with each other thus giving way to far more organized religious and military dictums which ruled our country for several years…..
@prince: You make some valid points but then tend to veer towards a slippery slope.
If there are issues with the current interpretation and understanding of “Hinduism”, my solution is not to replace it with Islam, Christianity but to attempt to reform it.
Read this post and you will understand what I mean: https://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/07/05/redefining-hinduism-need-of-the-hour/
By the way, a far more accurate “label” for what we believe in, is “Sanatan Dharma”, not “Hindu-ism”.
And please bear in mind that the rich culture and heritage which we are all very proud of, did actually flourish under the aegis of this belief-system that you and some others appear to so readily denigrate, condemn and generally belittle…
I hope you realise that having respect for other religions does not make you less of a believer in your own…
All: Please have a look at this links and a few others on this page: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmj-_BB6zWY
What do you think?
***
@ Anand: I am particularly interested in hearing your views…Dont you feel it is wrong to practice conversion under the guise of charity?
Patriot: Thankyou very much for appreciating my thoughts. Your words are very encouraging!
Anand: Where did I tried to impose something on you. They are my thoughts, opinions and views and I have rights to exhibit it the same way you have.
Why do I care about views and opinion of what scholars, historians, scientists or statemaens are holding. Why should I live under their shadows, when I have my eyes and mind to see the truth. Every human is unique and can be better than what other were in past or in present.
I follow the way of Hinduism and it says each soul is superior and each has brain to think about what is right and what is wrong.
I dont find any reason to live under the views of other authoritarian. I dont need any research, I follow what my heart says.
There is little bit of God in each of us. Just look at it and enjoy the freedom rather than calling others immature or unscholarly.
Jai Hind!
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@Prince: Thanks for your comments. You are balanced and logical.
@Shantanu: Dear friend, I wish I could talk to you indetail someday, explaning what conversions actually means in christianity. There is a lot of wrong notion aand understanding regarding this subject.
YES it is TOTALLY wrong if someone is inducing someone to change his religion. Christianity doesnot teach it. If anybody is doing it, let it be known that Christ has not taught and asked it this way and so God doesnot approve it. But at the same time we must reaalize that this does not take away the privilege and grace one may have, to do charitable works.
Regarding Conversion: You know NO ONE CAN ACTUALLY CONVERT ANOTHER PERSON, EITHER THROUGH INDUCING OR THROUGH FORCE – BECAUSE CONVERSION HAPPENS IN THE HEART, NOT OUTSIDE, AND NO ONE OTHER THAT THE INDIVIDUAL WHO OWNS THAT HEART HAS ACCESS TO IT TO CHANGE IT. IT IS SIMPLY BEYOND THE REACH OF ANYBODY IN THIS WORLD.
What does that mean? Simply this that one cannot become a follower of Christ until one wants it himself/herself. It is purely a matter of faith and how can one change another’s faith unless that person wants to have it himself.
Secondly, CHRISTIANITY DOESNOT SAVE ANYONE; ONLY CHRIST DOES. That means, Even if a person changes his religion to christianity, it doesnot do him any good at all, neither is it TRUE christian conversion, BECAUSE CHRISTIAN CONVERSION IS NOT THE CONVERSION OF RELIGION BUT THE CONVERSION OF HEART.
The aim of christian missions had always been to present the claims of Jesus that he can be your Saviour if you so want it. Once this claim is presented to an individual, the job of Christian mission is DONE and Complete with regard to that individual. Now it is completely upto that individual whether he wants to receive Christ as his saviour or not.
Even if a person changes his religion and calls himself christian, but doesnot receive Christ, HE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN. AND CHRISTIAN SALVATION IS NOT ACHEIVED BY HIM/HER.
Consequently this means that merely being born in a Christian family to christian parents, doesnot make anyone a christian. Everyone including those born in Christian families has to individually receive Christ as one’s personal saviour to become a Christian. Christianity is not a religion, it is an experience.
CHRISTIAN RELIGION, i.e. CHRISTIANITY DOES NOT SAVE ANYONE. Only Christ does.
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@Indian: Brother, I am Sorry for putting it so harshly that “you are imposing…”.
What I actually meant is that you can make such statements only after qualifying them as “In my opinion…” or “I believe that…”
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Anand:
Sorry to interupt your ongoing discussion with Shantanu. But I would like to have my input.
What you see as Lord Jesus, the same way we see Lord Krishna or Lord Shiva as our saviour. The name is different. Basically, most religion preaches the same thing. In India we have christmas holidays, chapters on Christ’s life. and we sing a christmas carols though we have our religion, temples and our culture. We have many convents school In india too. So I don’t see we have drawn any line that only my lord can save you or me. When it is time to preach we preach all religion are same there is no my God or your God. And follow rightious hood in daily life.
Only prayers are important who so ever receiver is! But I dont see this with christians, I wont use the word Christianity. Because we have nothing against christinaty.
Ultimate goal is receiving personal saviour through prayers to your God. Yes, christinity can do big favour by asking people of all religion to pray thier saviour who so ever he/she is, and to be a good human being. I dont see any reason to convert heart by conversion. Sometime I see under the disguise of saviour and charity converson is taking place. You need to be honest with your god too! Again I have come across many such orgnisation who are practising prosyletisation and have interacted with many. My request to them is go to those who dont have religion of their own and are not following any religious practises and prayers. Give them option to pray anyone they like. We all have right to pray and receive personal saviour whether we are christian, Muslims, Hindu. Sikh etc. etc. We dont need to be christian to receive blessing from Christ.
Again i dont mean to offend anyone here. God bless all!
Jai Hind!
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I was in rush so I couldnot put my comment in order. Hope readers can understand the point.
@Indian: You said- “…The name is different. Basically, most religion preaches the same thing… So I don’t see we have drawn any line that only my lord can save you or me. When it is time to preach we preach all religion are same there is no my God or your God.”
Indian, I have only this to say, that you do so and preach so because you believe so.
But Christians don’t believe so and cannot be expected to believe so just because others believe so towards them. This belief in Jesus being the only way, is an integral part of Christian faith and CHRISTIAN FAITH STANDS OR FALL WITH THIS BASIC UNCONDITIONAL AND FOUNDATIONAL PREMISE THAT JESUS IS THE WAY. Call it what you may, arrogance, insensitiveness, unfriendlliness, selfishness…
But christian faith is precisely this. Any expectation to have a change in this line, is expecting a CEASING of Christian faith itself.
Christian faith is not dependent on what others consider it to be or not to be. It cannot be expected to change its basic premise just because others are very accomodating and have a different understanding of gods and religions. It cannot be expected to reciprocate others’ generocity by altering its basic premise of faith.
There are other faiths in the world which are as unaccomodating, but they will take your life for not going along with their belief and for not accepting their faith; whereas a Christian gladly allows his life to be taken and forgives its persecuters to hold on to his faith. Sorry, a christian doesnot have that option and luxury.
Indian, may be some day I would like to explain to all of you my friends why christian believe the way they do. I love you all and I consider you all as my friends and brothers. Sorry if I sound very unaccomodating in this matter.
@ Anand: You say:
“…This belief in Jesus being the only way, is an integral part of Christian faith…Call it what you may, arrogance, insensitiveness, unfriendlliness, selfishness…”
If that is so, don’t you feel that Christianity needs reform?
See also Bharat’s comment here in which he has a quote by Mahatma Gandhi (It is worth repeating here):
“It is impossible for me to reconcile myself to the idea of conversion after the style that goes on in India and elsewhere today. It is an error which is perhaps the greatest impediment to the world’s progress toward peace … Why should a Christian want to convert a Hindu to Christianity? Why should he not be satisfied if the Hindu is a good or godly man?”
~ MK Gandhi, Harijan (30 January 1937)
@Shantanu:
I still say you can interpret this unaccomodating stance of Christians as “arrogance, insensitiveness, unfriendlliness, selfishness…”, but that doesnot mean that they are such. I am saying that you have that option to interpret it that way.
However, I am not saying that Christain individuals are perfect people either. They too are fallible human beings with all weaknesses and short comings. Can you confidently claim that Hinduism or any other religion does not need reform? Lets refrain from name calling. If we do, I can boldly say that Christians will have less things to be ashmed of than many others.
Being a minority of barely 2.3% in India, you know the immense contribution of Christians in almost every aspect of life (from education, health care, social works to social reformations…) always at the face of opposition and hostility. You are the best Judge of these to know how much reformation Christians need.
Shantanu, on a personal note, I must tell you that every time I have read your comments, my impression about you is of a very balanced and mature person. Keep it up buddy.
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@ Bharat: I felt your comment was more appropriate here.
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Aggressive ugly drive by Christian Missionaries in Asom
The Cry of Majuli…
…Recurring floods and erosion are not the only problems that Majuli is beset with. Large-scale conversion of Misings in the island to Christianity is the order of the day, thanks to the ‘mission’ of Christian missionaries who are free to operate in the island in this great ‘secular’ country of ours. The xatradhikar (religious head) of the famed Auniati Xatra, Dr Pitambar Dev Goswami, has told this newspaper that the activities of Christian missionaries in Majuli, which is the hub of xatriya culture in the Northeast, give ‘‘pain to the heart’’ because, as he has very rightly argued, just as Vatican City is sacred to Christians and Mecca to Muslims worldwide, so too is Majuli to the Asomiyas who are adherents of the xatriya school of thought — which is Hinduist. But why should the ‘secular’ government, which has played havoc with the cardinality of secularism by denouncing anyone with a sense of pride in Hinduism as ‘communal’, be bothered about anti-Hindu or anti-Asomiya activities in Majuli? …..
Majuli: Identity Imperilled
JP Rajkhowa
The April 2 and April 3 issues of The Sentinel have carried news about a number of poor, illiterate and neglected members of the ethnic Mishing community being lured into the fold of Christianity, and coming up of a large number of churches in Majuli during last four to five years due to overzealous actions by some Christian fundamentalists, backed by financial resources from the West. It is reported that for one family of converted Christian, a church has been built — guess where the money has come from! Obviously not from the poor and illiterate neo-Christian Mishing families. This has happened in spite of the historical sattras (Vaishnavite monasteries) spread over the Majuli river island and scores of bhakats and disciples of the sattradhikars, who are supposed to be practising neo-Vaishnavism based on the principle of monotheism and equality of all as propounded by Mahapurush Sankardeva more than 500 years ago. ….
The Sattra Mahasabha — the apex body of 800-odd sattras — said at a press conference that ‘‘the Christian missionaries in the State are on a serious drive to convert people to Christianity right under the nose of the State Government’’ (The Sentinel, April 2, 2008). It further stated that ‘‘the Christian missionaries are bent on converting the weaker sections of the State’’. The Northeast VHP president, Jyotish Chandra Pathak, and the Asom Sattra Mahasabha president, Bhadra Krishna Goswami, said: ‘‘The Mising people who are Hindus have been especially targeted for conversion by Christian missionaries. The Misings of Majuli over the last few years have been lured on false promises of education and jobs by missionaries. This is not only confined to Majuli, but is prevalent in the entire State. Majuli, which is the centre of Vaishnavite culture, should be within the sole domain of the Hindus, like Vatican City is for Christians’’. They have asked all ‘‘conscious people of the State to resist such tactics and have also asked the State Government to take immediate steps to stop the conversion process’’.
The establishment of an English-medium school in the Mising-dominated Jengraimukh area first started the process. The missionaries set up a hospital in the later stages and began providing free treatment to the poor people… The sources maintained that the missionaries have taken advantage of the plight of the tribal residents and also of the natural disasters to implement their ‘plan of religious conversion’.
There would have been no grounds to worry had the conversions been totally voluntary, through free exercise of the Constitutional right to ‘‘freedom and free profession, practice and propagation of religions’’ as guaranteed under Article 25(1), due mainly to one’s conscience, not due to threats, force, or any kind of temptation.
The State machinery also appears to be sleeping over the fact of involuntary conversions even at the heritage river island that showcases the pristine Vaishnavite culture, in spite of being armed with legal powers under Section 153-A of the Indian Penal Code. Does the Asom Government feel that more power is needed to effectively counter the menace in order to prevent any major communal flare-up? Well, nothing prevents our government from legislating a special law for dealing with the problem, with effectiveness and speed, as many other State governments have already taken up that path. Would our so-called people’s government take any initiative now?
(The writer was Chief Secretary, Assam)
read more on web.
http://www.sentinelassam.com/
Guwahati, 6 April 2008
Anand, Bharat: Thanks for your comments. I will respond in a day or two.
Anand
Whatever you say, but I don’t see any good faith in so called mission of converting heart. It is a just mission by missionaries in name of God. God is being used to fear people.
Jai Hind!
India is only for hindus, buddhists, jains & sikhs. no others have rights to spread their religion in india Especially CHRISTIANS _________.
COMPARISION OF RELIGION BY AGE
1. HINDUISM – atleast 5000 years ( discovery of pasupathi seal in indus valley)
2. judaism – 3000
3. confucianism – 2700
4. zoarastrianism – 2700
5. JAINISM – 2600
6. BUDDHISM – 2550
7. christianity – 2000
8. islam – 1400
9. sikhism – 500
I find this site fueled only by bitterness and hate.
Ask yourself “Do I have anything worthwhile to do other than just criticizing others? Is criticism my only end for which I exist? Or is there something else that drives and sustains me?
What makes you so insecure if you claim to be the best? How come other’s good work makes you panic and feel threatened?
Had there been no Muslims and Christians (however BAD and DANGEROUS they may be) on this planet, would I be doing something sacrificial and constructive for the poor and downtrodden in this life? And what stops me from doing those thing today than just finding fault in ‘bad’ people.
@ Conscience Matters: First of all, I am not sure why you posted the same comment on two separate posts. I have deleted one of them.
Secondly, I am sorry that you see this site fueled only by bitterness and hate…I don’t see it that way – neither do the vast majority of my readers…
In any case, I respect your right to criticise, so I am not “censoring” your comment…
As for your other questions, I do not consider this effort (blogging) worthless.
I do have other things to do and other interests (e.g. do read my post on “fixing the system” from two days ago)…
and I do welcome the “good work” by others – Why should I panic and feel threatened?
@ Comment #90.
Could you please list some of your good works. Please! They may inspire others to emulate.
We shall eagerly wait to read them. If we don’t get your lists, then it will only expose your bluff.
# 90 Conscience Matter
Conscience Matter is panicked and threatened because his so called good work of conversion may come to stop due to educated site like this. What is he doing here? Criticising and preaching others about no critisism.
Have you ever questioned Govt., on issues like poverty and downtrodden? Your first stop is there. Go and do something about it before questiong others about what to do and what to not do.
@ Bharat
Precisely. You don’t need to learn from others what “Good Work” is if you already know it. Moreover you don’t have to wait for others to do it, you would be doing it anyway if that (good work) is the essence of your being and person.
@ Indian
…educated!!! Please reflect it in your conduct, conversations, attitudes and writings (read blogging).
Conscience Matter
So you come here for slamming others on pretext of reading the bolg. Dont You have anyother things to do in life? Nikkama bekar ho kya? And you also have habit of poking nose on other conducts, conversation, attitudes and writings. You think you will get away by just pinpointing my word “educated”. I am not uneducated, inferior and insecure like you who make fun of other’s work and writing. Keep some standard.
@ Indian
Dear, why get so worked up? Relax. We can’t have a meaningful dialog if one is not open to criticism.
I meant: If one’s education does not reflect in one’s attitudes and actions, i.e if education has not changed one, was it a real education in the first place? What’s the point of such education?
Education doesn’t mean just studying and getting University degrees. It means growing up in stature; growing in wisdom (not just knowledge), growing in understanding and consideration. I would not call somebody Nikkamma bekar even if somebody is so. My education detests me from calling names even if those names were true.
@ Dear Conscience Matters
I am not worked up and I am completely at ease. You are in a discussion with a person who has taken all kind of pills. And the words like ” Education doesnot mean just studying and getting Uniiversity degrees. It means growing up in stature, and wisdom…” are not new to me.
I think my comment was for your comment #94 and it was befitting reply, I am sorry to say that. I have all the rights to fight for myself and the work I am engaged in that is “Why Christian Missionaries are targeting India”. I dont care if I become less educated and wise by doing so, reason- I am fighting the menace of educated christian missionaries who are wolves in a skin of sheep. If they want to do good, let them do it but why do they need to take advantage of converting innocents, illeterate and gullible people.
Can you tell me how many so called wise people have fought for their rights? If that would have been the case then we should stop preaching our kids in school not to fight and to share if heads of the 2 countries are declaring war on the border.
Who do you say wise? Britishers who invaded India or Indians who fougth for the freedom?.
Whites who engaged blacks for slavery or Martin Luthar king who fought for the blacks?
Sorry to say that, but personally it is nothing against you. I cannot see anyone who is on the other side of the internet I am talking to. So I have to discourage all kind of comments that comes in the way of, who have no heart and fire for the nation. Judging the people on wrong note without taking interest in the national issue doesnot work.
Short excerpt from Mainline Churches Must Address Christian Fundamentalism, Says Scholar, August 14, 2008
I just read a news regarding probe into flow of foreign fund for converting Hindus into christian. Karnataka Govt. ordered this.
Yes thats true. But foreigners who are contributing this kind of funds are also unaware of this mission thats also true. I have gone into details few months back and I found out that many working class families from foreign countries
are sending donation from $1 to $ 10 or some may be more, to the priest of churches in Andhra, Tamilnadu, kerala.. so far in my knowledge for a cause to eliminate poverty and feed a mouth in India. They have no clue that these funds will be used to establish base of christianity. Priest in return sends out message of receipt of fund by thanking each family who contributed the amount by stating, how their act have helped poor and hungry in India.
As an Indian we are not against any religion. Let the church comes up, but going into remote area, preaching against (falsehood) Hinduism and converting them cannot be accepted.
Jai Hind!
Excerpts from a Abusing freedom, falsifying gods by Kanchan Gupta
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On Monday, March 20, Assist News Service, based in Lake Forest, California, USA, which circulates news about the work of evangelists around the world, put out a story by Michael Ireland, its chief correspondent, headlined ‘India’s Prime Minister launches investigation into arrest and persecution of Indian Christians’.
According to this story, “India’s Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, has launched an investigation into the arrest of Hopegivers International President Dr Samuel Thomas.
…The story then goes on to urge Christians in the US to petition Senators, Congressmen and the US President against what it portrays as outrageous action by the Government of Rajasthan, prodded by ‘Hindu fascists’, against Dr Thomas and his fellow evangelists of Emmanuel Mission International that operates five registered societies in that State. These are: Emmanuel Bible Institute Samiti, Emmanuel Anath Ashram, Emmanuel School Society, Emmanuel Chikitsalaya Samiti and Emmanuel Believers Fellowship, all funded by the US-based Hopegivers.
What it does not mention, however, is the reason why Dr Thomas and his associates have been booked for violating Sections 153(a) and 295(a) of the IPC, “which deal with deliberately outraging religious feelings or insulting the religious beliefs of another community.” Dr Samuel Thomas has been arrested and his father, Mr MA Thomas, has been declared an absconder.
…Dr Thomas has been quoted saying, “Of course, none of these actions are legal. The terrorists and hate groups have taken the law into their own hands and sadly, we have lost confidence in the local Government to control them.”
Since evangelist advocacy groups have willfully refused to tell the full story, it would be in order to place the facts on record.
The immediate provocation that led to the arrest of Dr Thomas and others involved with the Emmanuel mission’s work in Kota is born of the contents of a book that he and his associates have been distributing among the people. The book, Haqeeqat, is authored by a Kerala-based evangelist, MG Matthew, and purports to be a rebuttal of MS Golwalkar’s writings that have been published by the RSS as Bunch of Thoughts.
In reality, it is unadulterated abuse of Hindu scriptures, faith, ritual and tradition. It denigrates every tenet of Hinduism and pours undiluted scorn on Hindu icons and gurus. It casts aspersions on the chastity of Hindu women and questions received wisdom.
…Here are some samples of what Haqeeqat, which was being used by the Thomases and their associates to convince Hindus in Kota to abandon their faith and embrace Christianity, has to say:
* “Hindu gods and goddesses are fictitious and were invented to persecute Dalits” (Page 9).
…
* “Naked sanyasis are worshipped by (Hindu) women. The moment (Hindu) women see naked sanyasis, they fall on the ground and prostrate themselves before the sanyasis. (Hindu) women pour water on the sanyasis’ penises and then happily drink that water. Ling Devata is gratified when he sees all these repulsive things and feels empowered… These people are ignorant and do not know the difference between what is right and wrong.” (Page 93)
* “Sita was abandoned in the forest as per Ram’s wishes… Ram later asked Lakshman to kill Sita. In the end, Ram frustrated with life, drowned himself in Saryu. Such are the teachings of half-naked rishis who are praised by Hindutvawadis.” (Page 100)
* “Lord Shiva, to get people to worship him, dropped his penis on Earth (Devi), shaking the ground and the sky! … . Poor Dharti Devi was shaken by the weight of his penis. Seeing this, all the Gods were scared. It seems Gods would use their penises as bombs! Whenever and wherever they wanted to, they would drop their ‘penis bombs’ to terrorise the people. Thus, they were able to enslave the people… But compared to foreign bombs, these penis bombs were a damp squib.” (Page 106-107)
* “(Ramakrishna) Paramahansa should have known that Ganga is the world’s filthiest and dirtiest river. How many dead bodies float down this river every day? How many half-burnt dead bodies are dumped into it every day?…” (Page 122-123)
* “(For Hindus) men can be Gods, women can be Goddesses… animals are gods, snakes are gods… they (Hindu Gods) fight among themselves, marry among themselves, throw out their wives, run away with others’ wives, they steal, get intoxicated, drink blood, are reincarnated as animals, fish and tortoise, some of them can lift mountains… Some Gods are in same-sex relationships and are yet able to produce babies. These Gods and Goddesses are always armed because they believe in killing and plunder. Some Gods think their penises are more powerful than nuclear bombs. Others like animals live naked among their followers. Some of them spend their time in yogic exercises, others are in samadhi and happy to see the number of blind followers swell… You can wash away your sins by worshipping the penises of Gods” (Page 146)
* “How could Arya Hindus bring Aryanisation on this earth. To be Arya, one has to be born of an Arya womb… If Arya Hindus want to bring Aryanisation then they must lend or rent out all Arya wombs to non-Aryans. Non-Aryans should be given Brahmin women so that children are born from Brahmin womb” (Page 182-183).
* “In modern India, many Ramas of this belief are living a carefree life. They marry several times, desert their wives, marry several times, and leave them. Many Ramas kill their Sitas. They are following their God Rama.” (Page 269)
* “(Lord) Krishna had a despicable sex life… Shri Krishna is famous because of his love life. He had 16,008 wives. And all Yadav women were his illegitimate lovers. (Hindu) women are drawn towards him because of pornographic and vulgar tales of his sex life.” (Page 391)
This is not the first time that the Emmanuel mission has run foul of the local administration and upset Hindus. On February 24, 2005, there was a near riot situation following the mission’s crude attempt to convert Hindus through allurement and false propaganda. On that occasion, the mission head, Mr MA Thomas, had promised not to continue with such provocative activities.
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dear christian friends if u want to know about india & hinduism i suggest u to study wrks of SWAMI VIVEKANANDA. HE EXPLAINES EVERYTHING ABT HINDUISM AND ALL RELIGIONS and also hw to live in unity.VEANTA PROCLAIMS GREAT TRUTH IT GOES LIKE THIS IN SANSKRIT(MOTHER OF ALL LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD) “EKAM SATH VIPRA BAHUDA VADANTHI” WHICH MEANS TRUTH IS ONE BUT SAGES CALL IT BY VARIOUS NAMES.ONE MAY CALL THT TRUTH RAMA,ANOTHER MAY KRISHNA,ANOTHER MAY CALL IT JESUS OR PROPHET MOHAMMAD…BUT IT IS ONE.THT TRUTH HAS BEEN EXPLAINED BEAUTIFULLY IN RIGVEDA.IT HAS BEEN REALIZED BY MNY SAGES AND INCARNATIONS OF GOD IN INDIA AND THEY PROCLAIMES AGAIN AND AGAIN TO THE WHOLE WORLD THT THERE ARE NO TWO GODS BUT ONE BUT PPL CALL THT TRUTH BY VARIOUS NAMES.I APPEAL ALL MY CHRISTIAN FRNDS TO PLS UNDERSTAND THIS AND STOP ARGUING THT JESUS IS THE ONLY GOD. HE IS GOD BUT NT “ONLY GOD”. SWAMI VIVEKANANDA SAID THT “RELIGION IS THE MANIFESTATION OF DIVINITY ALREADY IN MAN” By this great statement it is clear tht THERE IS DIVINITY IN EACH & EVERY INDIVIDUAL AND ONE MUST LOOK WITHIN IN ORDER TO DISCOVER THT AND MANIFEST..IT IS ALRADY WITHIN EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL.I ALSO APPEAL TO EACH AND EVERY CHRISTIAN WHO WANTS TO CONVERT OTHER THT HINDUISM IS THE MOST SCIENTIFIC RELIGION AS SAID BY ALBERT EINSTEIN.HE SAID THT HE OWES A LOT TO HINDUISM BECAUSE THEY INVENTED DECIMAL SYSTEM,O& 1’S ARE INVENTED BY HINDUS WITHOUT WHICH NO MODERN INVENTION IS POSSIBLE AND MANY MORE ARE THERE.TO KNOW MORE ABT HINDUISM REAL “COMPLETE WORKS OF SWAMI VIVEKANANDA”. I WOULD LIKE TO TELL ALL THE CHRISTIANS THT JESUS ALL PRACTISED AUSTERITIES IN HIMALAYS SOME PART OF HIS LIFE WAS MISSING BEFORE HE BECAME CHRIST. HE PRACTISED HIS AUSTRERITIES IN HIMALAYS IN ORDER TO GET REALIZATION. AFTER THT REALIZATION(MANIFESTATION OF DIVINITY) HE BECAME JESUS THE CHRIST. THIS IS TRUTH AND KNOW THT TRUTH ALWAYS TRIUMPHS SATYAMEVA JAYATHE( THIS IS ALSO PROCLAIMED BY VEDAS)…KNOWING THIS GREAT TRUTH ALL INIDIANS IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTE,CREED…etc SHALL LEAVE IN HARMONY AND MAKE INDIA GREAT AND SHOW TO THE REST OF THE WORLD THT IN INDIA ALL RELIGIONS ARE TRUE ALL LIVE IN HARMONY. JAI HIND.